A Clarification on Nukes and the suggestions people make.

Covert22

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
52
know your nukes folks.

I think people try and bring up the difference between "H-bombs" and "nukes" a bit too frequently... I'll try and explain some weapons a bit better and in detail.

For starters I think some of you dont really realize that "splitting the atom" isnt really all that special, substances that are radioactive often undergo spontaneous fission and this is why most elements that are radioactive will be warm to the touch (atoms are splitting willy-nilly everywhere causing the heat). If you were to pack a few hundred pounds of plutonium in your garrage and leave it there. Within minutes that plutonium would start to melt and from there cause a "melt down" (yea, that is what a meltdown actually is... NOT a pseudo-nuclear blast).

2.) Radioactive elements and compounds (with the occasional rare exception) Do *NOT* GLOW *Uranium is NOT A GLOWING GREEN METAL ***EVER***. The green myth about uranium is probably due to uranium being used at one time as a way to make green glass... btw this glass is perfectly safe.

Any radioactive stubstance in too much quantity will reach a critical mass... (yes critical mass refers to a point where an out of control reaction occurs that can result in a meltdown... (NOT, once again a nuclear blast)

a Nuclear explosion can only occur via "Super Critical Mass" which can only take place by compressing something like U235 or Pu239 into such a small point as to cause enough fission to take place in a short enough ammount of time to cause an explosion instead of simply melting. This means that man doesnt split the atom, the element itself does and the trick is making trillions of atoms split in a short period of time before the heat would cause a malfunction.

When it comes to hydrogen weapons, an ICBM *CAN* use a staged thermonuclear device but in reality not every missile out there carries one...

a staged thermonuclear device is also by the way essentially just a traditional nuclear weapon with a secondary hydrogen payload placed below it. There is no such thing as the "H-bomb being different from a nuke"

The idea is that the detonation caused by the first stage nuclear device (always an implosive as opposed to a gun type) will cause the natural U-238 tamper surrounding the hydrogen fuel (fusion juice) to abblate despite the increased pressure caused by the initial X-Ray burst in the first device's detonation. The inevitable and intended result is that a fissionable U-235 "sparkplug" surrounding the actual deuterium fusion juice will heat up and undergo spontaneous fission that will induce an artificial (an obviously temporary) enviroment that will be so damn hot it creates a sustained fusion reaction that can exceed at least a 5-10% yield from the fuel.

This means that dual stage hydrogen devices are completely dependent on the induced reaction and can be designed to achieve a limitless number of yields... A nuclear weapon can be small enough to take out a single city block or be built to the current record size of 50 megatons in the case of the Tsar Bomba test by the USSR. It should be noted that there is no limit to the potential size of a blast... Tsar Bomba's design could have easily produced a 100 megaton blast with little increased size and still fitting in a the space of a small shed.

It should also be noted that Fusion weapons dont derive even on average 25% of their yield from fusion, instead the fusion helps to facilitate a more efficient level of fission in the first stage, sparkplug, and even the tamper. The result means that a HUGE amount of fission can take place and thus a massive blast is the result.

From here it should be known that *ALL* modern nuclear weapons traditionally not considered "thermonuclear" still use fusion to allow for a more predictable and greater yield, this is called "boosting" and is done by filling the "pit" of a weapon with deuterium and tritium... when the button is pushed a small amount of fusion takes places and allows for a 'cleaner' blast even if only 2-3% of the released energy comes from fusion.

Now, I would like possibily to see more nuclear options aviable in Civ...

Neutron bombs are probably out of the question despite a definite 'coolness' effect they have... popular culture assumes that these things leave buildings intact and just kill the living things in an area... in reality neutron bombs are designed to allow a weapon to kill the occupents of multiple armored targets in a large area... the blast area of the original weapon is still going to be destinctly destructive and result in a nasty little crater.

'salted' bombs would probably be a more realistic option... the idea of a salted bomb is to stuff it with a tamper that will become irradiated and fall back to earth in the form of a massive quantity of fallout... the nice things is that these things can be modified to have a short lived half-life. In the case of a gold loaded bomb that half life can be as short as 2 days... On the other hand a "cobalt bomb" will result in an area being unusable for years and on top of that seed huge quantities of fallout in a large area.

I think what I am saying is for Civ 4 to include future forums of nuclear weapons the typical shout out for 'H-bombs' is not only tired but innacurate to how a weapon actually functions...

Yes, I realize it is creepy i know this king of crap.
 
Nice post... very informitive... problem is more then likely it will go on deaf ears :(

Oh well... as for it being creepy i would have to disagree. Personally this subject (as well as anything in the high end sciences) is quite fasinating to me :P
 
dude you know way to much about nukes :eek: good read tho. oh and MI6 have a few questions to ask you they on there way lol
 
A multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle, or MIRV, is one of a collection of nuclear weapons carried on a single intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) or a submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM). Using MIRVs, a single launched missile can strike several targets, or fewer targets redundantly.

The military purpose of a MIRV is twofold.

* To reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of an anti-ballistic missile system that relies on intercepting individual warheads. While a MIRVed attacking missile can have multiple (3-12 on various US missiles) warheads, interceptors can only have one warhead per missile. Thus, in both a military and practical sense, MIRVs render ABM systems less effective, as the costs of maintaining a workable defense against MIRVs would grow astronomically, and would require multiple defensive missiles for each offensive one.
* To reduce the number of missiles required to carry out an attack. With single warhead missiles, one missile must be launched for each target. The post-boost (or bus) stage of a MIRV can dispense the warheads against multiple targets across a broad area

hey Sid i want a MIRV it makes SDI less effective please lol
 
Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg


LG-118A Peacekeeper missile system being tested at the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

The lines shown are the re-entry vehicles -- one Peacekeeper can hold up to 10 nuclear warheads, each independently targeted. Were the warheads armed with a nuclear payload, each would carry with it the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-sized weapons. :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
 
Anther "fun fact" regarding MIRVs is that they were originally to have been banned by SALT 2... However in the end both the U.S. and U.S.S.R. decided that they couldnt part with their favorite toys...
 
the green myth is probably (i would say) because of radon being radioactive and sometimes (I do physics not chemistry) glowing green.
 
Tiger_Nation said:
the green myth is probably (i would say) because of radon being radioactive and sometimes (I do physics not chemistry) glowing green.

I don't think the "green myth" has any scientific roots. My guess is that several media just needed some way to depict radioactivity as something strange and unnatural, and "glowing green" happened to fit the bill.

Radioactivity was a big issue in science fiction in the mid-20th century. It also played a huge role in the comic books scene, where it was often used as an explanation for humans developing "super powers". The comic books just needed some way to "draw" radioactivity. My guess is that the "glowing green" originated in that environment, was presented to a large public, and has been copied ever since.

It's really the same as computer viruses in today's movies. The movie makers just need a way to depict the destructuive power of a virus, so they show how the virus distorts the screen and makes the letters fall down, which is absolutely atypical for a virus. But it's something that shows everyone that there's something destructive at work there, so it fits the bill.
 
I read somewhere in this site: http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/ that the Tsar Bomb had a 100Megaton Blast. Unfortunately my English is not the best, so I didn't understand you completely, but I read in this site that today 90-95% of the power of a nuke comes from fusion, and fission is only to make the temperature high enough. BUt dunno... The most amazing thing about nukes is their incredibly small size. You could hide a 20Megaton nuke in your closet ^^
 
In my opinion the concussion generated by a nuclear weapon is what causes the most destruction. Most nukes are airburst. they detonate a specific distand above ground so that the concussion waves generated in the air spread alot farther then they would if the nuke impacted the ground. In fact most things are shredded by this blast before the heat actually hits it.
 
Exavier said:
In fact most things are shredded by this blast before the heat actually hits it.

well you've got three things to wory about: The flash, the shock wave, and the fireball. the shockwave does wide ranging damage than the fireball, I guess because a shockwave will drop off 1/r^2 but a fireball 1/r^3 because it has to heat everything inside that radius. but if you look at some of the videos you can easily find on the internet the flash is prety dangerous too, aside from radiation damage, the heat from it can be impressive, there are some videos where they show a house for example, the flash is first, traveling at the speed of light, the house bursts into flames, then comes the shock wave, traveling at the speed of sound, and blows the house away. it's the flash that caused the shadows you hear about in hiroshima.
 
true... but I still say that shockwave is the worst part of a nuke... personally i'd rather die in the flash (instant) then be standing around to get hit with the shockwave... and if your alive enough to feel the fireball I feel sorry for you :P
 
The OP is very informative on this.
However, the green uranium probably has more to do with allowing you to spot the resources than to perpetuate the myth.
Also I think water in a screwed up nuclear reactor (a la K-17) does give off the strange blue hue - I actually was interested enough to watch the dvd extra that said that they made the blue hue because the real submariners (who survived) on K-17 reported seeing blue hue when reparing the reactor.
 
Jinto1980 said:
LG-118A Peacekeeper missile system being tested at the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

The lines shown are the re-entry vehicles -- one Peacekeeper can hold up to 10 nuclear warheads, each independently targeted. Were the warheads armed with a nuclear payload, each would carry with it the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-sized weapons. :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Holy crap, that image is 3 screens wide and 800kb - any chance you could resize it a little?
 
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