A potential serious problem with 1.29f!

[DrJambo]

I think i may have found a potentially serious short-coming with 1.29f...

It's to do with the new increased value of the industrial to modern age techs and selling them for huge amounts in gpt to the AI. At times this value can reach as high as 250+ when the AI apparently has the income to support this.

However, i think that at times the AI civs are bankrupting themselves. I have no doubt that at the time of the deal the AI has the finances to support this contract, however, 20 turns is a long time and a civ's financial status can change as quickly as the Scottish weather. Take these 2 examples of ways for a civ's financial status to change dramatically:

1. Say the civ were to decide to change government for instance!! At least one turn of anarchy and a possible humungous drop in income (e.g. changing from democracy to communism).

2. By remaining in democracy during a lengthy war, the effects of war weariness would result in decreased income, production and growth...

Now, the proof for my findings. Well being massively further ahead in one game than the other civs and exceedingly rich, i used this as an opportunity to investigate the AI civs' cities on a regular basis. When i happened to check on India and England, all 10 or so of their cities had zero improvements, bar Wonders!! Remember this was in the in the modern age! I found this totally bizarre and my only reasoning was they had sold off all their improvements to cover a bankrupt empire with an inescapable negative income.

In previous versions of civ3 gpt deals rarely got to above 100 gpt... in 1.29f this can easily be higher than 200 gpt!

Has anyone else found games with 1.29f following a similar pattern to this!? I will keep an eye on this bearing in mind that it is only likely to occur when the human player has the tech lead.. reason being they will settle for any major gpt deals whereas due to the huge increase in monetary deals in the industrial/modern ages Ai to Ai trading is severely lessened.

I would appreciate if the developers could have a look into this and anyone else for that matter.

Regards

J

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Yes, doctor, I have seen empty cities (and not due to war). It was in a game where several AIs got into a World War that ended in everyone for himself - i.e. everyone was at war with everyone. As the civs had all been trading heavily, lots of lux going back and forth, lots of gold for resources and so on, they all suddenly went broke - too many troops, too many buildings.....

and I surged ahead as the only country at peace and sold them all the tech - not realizing how they got the cash...... Soon, I saw how - by seeling out buildings.....

 

[rangers85]

Actually, I'd see the 200+ gpt deals pre-1.29f in a few of my games. So it's not something new, but the AI should better judge on if it'll still be in the position to pay a gpt deal at the end of 20 turns instead of just, "Can I pay it this turn"

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Yes, the large gpt deals had existed in the past. In my first five games on 1.29f I do seem to see a larger number of those deals occuring, but it's too small of a sample size to be sure.

I am always on the look out for the AI declaring war on me because they cannot pay anymore, so be careful in cutting those deals. Sometimes it is better to keep the tech lead if possible.

 

[Gastric ReFlux]

Actually, it can make a lot of sense to cut the AIs a bit of slack when brokering techs, luxuries, and resources. See what they offer and then decrease it some. This will incline them to look upon you with more favor, and can also help to avoid the problem that if an AI civ goes broke, it goes to war against you.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

With 1.21, I once had an Ai pay me 400 Goldp per turn plus two Luxuries for one tech - and they kept it. That was on a small map, and it must have hurt them, but it was Replacable Parts and it kept them going......

 

[Gastric ReFlux]

Now on the other side of things, if you get to the Modern Era and you're behind an AI in tech, they'll charge you an arm, leg, and your backbone for a tech. Which got China in a lot of trouble with me in an Emperor level game. Mao had Fission, and wouldn't sell it to anyone. He starts building the UN, so I decided it was time to make him the most unpopular civ. Declared war and signed every remaining AI into an alliance against him. Then marched my tanks in, took Beijing a few turns after the UN was finished, and razed it.

 

[Qitai]

I usually has a total of 1000+++ gpt from all my deals with the other civs, pre 1.29. It is kinda common if you play on a big map.

 

[sheldonreid]

Yeah doctor. This is a problem that has been around from the get-go. NOT a 1.29 specific error, just another example of poor AI programing

 

[KaNick]

I dont know if this is really a short coming for they AI. You have to look at it from their perspective if you were a drastically backward society wouldn't you pay a lot to keep up. I mean a spearman doesn't offer much protection from a tank.

Besides this is, IMO, a very good statagy. First you gat a tech lead, cut a grossly unfair deal and before you know it the ai has no more money for reaseach because they are giving all thier gold to you

 

[DiggaJigga]

Government changes do not affect GTP either. I was switching from Republic to Democracy in my current game and was making over 300 gpt.........................while in Anarchy.

 

[DiggaJigga]

I meant GPT by the way, and obviously I am human

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

DiggaJigga: there is a small button 'edit' at the top right of each post - click that to fix typos

 

[DiggaJigga]

Thanks. I am still stuck in an AOL Instant Message world.