ADD Production Planning Center improvement and Fix HURRY

cracker

Gil Favor's Sidekick
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Since Firaxis is looking at the options of adding some extra improvements small wonders, I feel that the option to deal with the late game shield waste should be included.

The wasted sheilds lost when you miss the oppostunity to build a great wonder are part of the risk of the game strategies, but undeclared general production waste really gets out of control in the mid to late game such that literally hundreds of shields go "poof" each turn.

1) Add a small wonder or improvement, that would probably be available in the early industrial age, that will let the player save the excess shields from producing one unit or improvement and apply them toward starting the next unit. Theoretically a city producing twenty shields should be able to produce a worker in one turn and leave ten (10) shields in the production box to apply to the next priority. This would deal with the “integer” waste issue that is rampant in the mid-game. Integer waste is the effect where you have cities that may produce 29 shields but need to produce a 10 shield worker. The excess 19 shields is just wasted. In the ancient age, integer waste usually only averages between 1 and 2 shields per unit or per improvement. By the time you reach the tech range of banking and astronomy this waste averages 3 shields per unit or improvement. In the industrial and modern ages the waste can be as high as 20 or 30 shields per unit or per improvement. Even if this wonder is not put into the standard game, the code option should be there because of the severe impact this problem really has on undeclared waste.

In a semi related area:

2) Add a small wonder, that would probably be available in the medieval age, that will let you save the excess food production units in excess to current population growth and carry it forward in the granary. This effect would only add to cities with granaries and would have much less impact than the shield integer waste problem because food production is often just a few grain units above the population consumption rate. Even if this wonder is not put into the standard game, the code option should be there because of the hidden waste impact that this problem has if you do not choose to waste many hours of your time micromanaging the civilian worker tile assignments.


Also in the mid to late game the HURRY production algorithm needs to be updated to recognize using the cities current product:

3) Fix the hurry button and hurry algorithm to account for the production that will be yielded in the turn. Currently this function is wasteful and excessively penalizes productive cities. As an example: if we want to hurry production of an improvement that costs 60 shields in a city that is producing 12 shields per turn and we already have one turn’s worth of production of 12 in the box then the improvement will require 48 shields to complete. We will be getting 12 shields from this turns production so we only need to buy 36 shields instead of the full 48 shields. We only need to hurry the balance that will not be covered by the city’s current expected output. This flaw should be addressed in the advisor pop-up screen by giving 4 choices: 1) to hurry the minimum number of shields, 2) hurry the minimum number of shields plus a couple extra shields to be sure things do not get disrupted by pollution or other random snafus, 3) hurry the full balance (as in the current wasteful implementation), or 4) some cutesy Emily Latila style message about “Oops, that is sooooo expensive!! Never mind”
 
Originally posted by cracker

2) Add a small wonder, that would probably be available in the medieval age, that will let you save the excess food production units in excess to current population growth and carry it forward in the granary. This effect would only add to cities with granaries and would have much less impact than the shield integer waste problem because food production is often just a few grain units above the population consumption rate. Even if this wonder is not put into the standard game, the code option should be there because of the hidden waste impact that this problem has if you do not choose to waste many hours of your time micromanaging the civilian worker tile assignments.

Maybe I misunderstand you, but I thought that we already had this. If there is one empty space in the food storage box, and I produce four food, on the following turn, I will have another citizen and three units of food in the box.
 
Dralix,

Just reverified the food integer cutoff problem in V1.21, so I am fairly sure its still exists.

Cities sitting with 18 wheat in the food box and producing more than 2 wheats per turn. Next turn pop is up by 1 and food box is at zero.

With a granary in place the same thing occurs but the the number of wheats required to grow a pop is cut in half. (I will add that when the granary is less than full, it refills first and then the population grows, so in that case the excess food waste is occurs in essentially the same fashion as if there was no granary in place.)

In effect, nothing saves the excess food production or excess shield production when the integer cutoff problem is encountered.

Great opportunity for a functional set of improvements and/or small wonders here.
 
Originally posted by Dralix


Maybe I misunderstand you, but I thought that we already had this. If there is one empty space in the food storage box, and I produce four food, on the following turn, I will have another citizen and three units of food in the box.

Cracker: This is the way it's always been for me too- I have one short of a full food bin and earn 5 food per turn, and next turn I have a new citizen and show 4 food bushels in the new food bin, ie the excess 4 DID carry over rather then being dropped. This is both with and without a Granery. I have not yet started using 1.21 (1.16 for me now, after the current game I will go to 1.21 I think.)

FOLKS OUT THERE!! Did youalls work like this before 1.21 but now like cracker, ie did the 1.21 patch took away food production excess carry-over??? IF so I don't like that at all!!!! IIRC, food excess carry over has been in place since the original Civ. I'm pretty sure thats the way Civ Two was anyway. I'm I misremembering???

I often use food excess carryover to help accelerate rebuilding pop after building workers and settleres. If we LOSE excess food bushels when a pop is created, this hits me full in the face. (Note that this is NOT part of Pop-rush, I just like to build lots of workers and settlers- the later are always part of my invasion forces and I build a substantial number of them ... I will outexpand the ai when I can. Give them a dose of their own medicine. I just plant in GOOD locations only, unlike the AI!)

:confused: :eek:
 
This stuff seems pretty questionable... I mean, while as a player I'd love to have the advantage of this stuff, don't you think that production already gets out of hand way too quickly? The food carryover I wouldn't mind, because it takes too much micromanagement to work around it and it seems that it used to work that way anyways (presumably it was fixed to neuter pop rush farms), but I think the production loss is a vital check on the overwhelming industrial power you can bring to bear in the late game (especially as compared to the ridiculously cost-effective units you have access to, costing about twice as much as medieval units but having stats many times higher) and a reasonable strategic element; you have to balance your production needs with the need to minimize waste.
 
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