Aggressive neighbors

cliff

Deity
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
160
Hi all!
I have discovered a new way of successfully handling aggressive neighbors without spending valueable time and money and resources on an early war and still being able to expand in any direction I want. Or I'd rather not say 'new' because you old veterans in here have probably played like this a thousand times before but it was new to me!

The situation is as follows: You have built two or three cities when you meet a couple of horsemen from the aggressive XXX:s. They demand tribute for not crushing you. Also, their one or two cities are close to yours. What to do?

I tried this approach, in some ways inspired from some occ playing of mine: Give them all your techs and ally with them! When you disover new techs, give it to them also. This has two advantages early on: You can move your settlers and other units where you want to, especially through "their" land so that you can found cities all around them, that's part of the strategy, and second, they will not be able to research anything the next 50 or so turns. The strategy is to build many settlers and to surround the opponent so that he has no room to expand. You don't need to worry much about building a lot of military units now since you have an ally, hopefully with several horsemen and other baits around for barbarians and other civs to attack. Also, build roads and, if available, railroads to their cities. You need these later.

OK, later on you eventually get involved in a war with one or a couple other civs. Fine, switch to fundamentalism or communism and build an army. Talk to your neighbors and refuse to give them anything. They will get sour and cancel the alliance. A few turns later, talk to them again and demand tribute. If they declare war on you, fine, go and kill them. It should be easy now since they only have two or three cities and ancient military units.

With this strategy it can even be an advantage to have an aggressive neighbor. You can establish trade routes to their cities and they will take care of some of the barbarians. Maybe thay will pay you for declaring war on a mutual enemy. And if you kill them, you get a couple of medium sized cities with city improvements for free. You only need a handful of military units and a handful of diplomats to get all of this.
 
Interesting. I've never buckled into AI demands unless I'm caught without a defender in a new city. Better to rushbuild walls and let them die endless deaths against them... :p

If it works, have at it. It's always a good idea to settle the good spots first, leaving the AI less useful terrain. Take their specials and grassland, you will dominate them soon enough!
 
Another great and cheap way to deal with pesty near by AI's...

Find a great defensive position (best if mountains) on a direct line from them to you. Just fortify one of your best defensive units on it. The stupid AI will always take the quickest path to you, and will attack your unit... OVER AND OVER AGAIN... spending 100's of years producing units one at a time just so they can die one at a time against your unit. It does keep them busy and off your back ;)

It's usually best to put a second unit with it, because eventually, the AI will try to bribe it ;)
 
Originally posted by Ming
The stupid AI will always take the quickest path to you, and will attack your unit... OVER AND OVER AGAIN... spending 100's of years producing units one at a time just so they can die one at a time against your unit.

Hmmm, maybe the AI isn't so stupid after all... this sounds like a good plot for a Hollywood action movie. :D

Concerning strategy, I'm usually too weak (or maybe just too insecure) to ignore my neighbour's threats. So I often do make peace/ally with my neighbours. But apart from the occasional tech swap I never bother with the rest of the world, except to defend myself. When spies come around I'll usually become more aggressive and slowly but persistently bribe the whole world.
The fact that my strategies have often developed through habit is probably my weakest point. There must have been plenty of opportunities for me in past games to go for early conquest...
Your strategy sounds rather appealing actually, cliff, because it fits in nicely with my usual way of playing, except that it's more expansionistic...
But what's this all about:
... and second, they will not be able to research anything the next 50 or so turns.
 
Very interesting! Another way to play Civ II. This game is the greatest. ally with agressive A.I. and smother him with new cities...thats great. :beer:
 
I like the smother idea. I do something similar if I'm on the same continent and I can't defeat the AI quickly, or I don't have really good defensive terrain.

I play nice with the AI, build a group of cities nearby about the same number as he has in the immediate area, giving them most of what they ask for, then I build a set of roads and whatever mobile units are best at the year in question. This allows for a very easy to defend border since the horse type units can respond quickly and take out most units in the field (if I can't defaet the AI in city combat, I can at least keep him from getting catapults and such up to my cities. Plus, you're cities may be smaller, but they still can pump out the same number of units that the AI can every turn, one.

Thsi method seems aboout as economical as building city walls and some defensive units. Plus it allows for the eventual assault. The only question is the time required. It might be a few centuries before you'll be able to attack. That's why it's important to know the relative strengths between you and the AI.
 
Normally I'm lucky when all neighbors are aggressive. That means, I've got the strongest civ.
If the're friendly, then I'm weak.
 
I understand what strategy you are advocating, and I admire your ability to see an opportunity in it. Nevertheless, I have a difficult time not playing 'Whack-a-Mole' :hammer: with the AI since they just plain don't know how to fight.

Perhaps I need to re-evaluate my war-mongering ways!
 
Originally posted by Marlos
I have a difficult time not playing 'Whack-a-Mole' :hammer: with the AI since they just plain don't know how to fight.

Yes... the AI fights like a drunken bozo.

The good news is, the AI is sooooo stupid, you always know what it's going to do. ;)

The bad news is, the AI is sooooo stupid, you always know what it's going to do. :(

Nothing easier than a predictable opponent...
 
Thats why Civ 2 has such great replay value. You can make a career out of playing it, and probably not exhaust all the various ways to play. Mainly because just when you think you have it all covered, someone comes up with a new idea and its back to the old drawing board....!

I like to play warmonger, but, sometimes, just for a change, I will try to "keep the peace" for as long as possible just to see how long it will last. And, when the A.I. finally breaks the peace, its so much fun to wipe him out. :slay: :ak47: :ak47: :beer:
 
But what's this all about :

quote:
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... and second, they will not be able to research anything the next 50 or so turns.
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The cost of research keeps going up tech by tech.If you "bomb" the ai with gifts,their requirements will go thru the roof.100s of turns sometimes.They will never actually finish a tech on their own.
 
by Smash

The cost of research keeps going up tech by tech.If you "bomb" the ai with gifts,their requirements will go thru the roof.100s of turns sometimes.They will never actually finish a tech on their own.

This is occurring in my GOTM 16. The Sioux will never complete another tech, but I gift them everything except Fundy anyway. Anything the produce I bribe as soon as it comes out (they have 9 gold and a single size 2 city with no Palace, LOL).
 
My problem with diety is the Barbs that can wipe me out if i have no Defense! how do I defeat the Barbs??????????????
 
Originally posted by Philosopher12
My problem with diety is the Barbs that can wipe me out if i have no Defense! how do I defeat the Barbs??????????????

I think you answered your own question... Defense helps :D
 
My problem with diety is the Barbs that can wipe me out if i have no Defense! how do I defeat the Barbs

Just to make sure there is no confusion, the activity of Barbs is set separately than difficulty level. Barbs are not eating your lunch because you're at Deity, its because you're probably at Raging Hordes.

Personally, I hunt them down with diplomats, and a very few units. I don't wait for them to come to me, I seek them out and set traps. A key is mobility, esp. to get the all-important leader (worth 150g at RH). The key to mobility is roads. Every city needs at least one unit once it gets growing (and you don't want to risk its loss anymore). The unit can even be a caravan or diplomat. Build a road onto defensible terrain near the city, and when the barbs come, converge... and buy time by moving a unit to force the fight outside the city.

Sea barbs are the most dangerous, as they can appear out of nowhere... but often you have a one turn warning, and can blockade/funnel the coming ashore so you can bring up the Chariot/Knight/Crusader to do the dirty. Or at least to get set on defensible terrain to take the first attack so you can get the leader. Many times, you simply have to kill the whole barb stack in a Sea Barb Attack, though.

But Land Barbs are a treasure trove. You should have lots of dips.... send them forth, stalk, bribe, then kill the Ldrs and get your 150g reward! And you'll likely pick up NONEs along the way, if you defend the AI from barbs...

GO AND GET!!!

:)
 
Originally posted by starlifter
The Sioux will never complete another tech, but I gift them everything except Fundy anyway. Anything the produce I bribe as soon as it comes out (they have 9 gold and a single size 2 city with no Palace, LOL).

So, I may be off topic here, but why don't you just get rid of the Sioux, starlifter? :confused: Why treat them as a 'pet civ'?

Besides, isn't the reason that they are not completing techs because they are only a size 2 city (little trade)? Isn't the AI rampantly trading them techs as an 'adjustment' to your dominance?
 
So, I may be off topic here, but why don't you just get rid of the Sioux, starlifter? Why treat them as a 'pet civ'?

Besides, isn't the reason that they are not completing techs because they are only a size 2 city (little trade)? Isn't the AI rampantly trading them techs as an 'adjustment' to your dominance?

I think he is referring to a civ he has blocked off from the outside permanently. He is giving them techs because it will reduce the time it takes him to research techs.
 
Gonzo's right; a "pet civ" allows the game to continue, and giving the purple civ (if your power is "Supreme" with 7 civs) techs reduces the amount of beakers required for your own research. This allows your own science to progress faster. If you don't want those techs "getting out", you'd better either kill off all the other civs, or keep the purple isolated. The game becomes quite challenging just to survive if you gift all the civs, like I used to do sometimes. But if you gift all the civs, it will not matter what your power rating is. Plus.... the whole tempo of the game will increase, as everyone will be flying through the ages... you'll get some great modern combat... and Modern combat is my favorite way to fight (but rarely occurs in GOTMs because Matrix' GOTM formula incorporates speed of finish as a reward).
 
WOW!!!!! Great advice! Thanks, Starlifter!!

Think I'll try a Diety game in the morning :sleep:
 
Your tagline made me come up with my own variant while in OT:

Veni Vidi Postadari
(I came, I Saw, I Posted)
- Starlifter

Me and Julius get along great :).
 
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