AI gets Liberalism 1080AD Monarch, Is that Normal???

[kniteowl]

I'm Generally a Prince Player, Playing Fractual, Alexander Agg/Phil... I'm not a smaller Continent with Mansa who's friendly as we share the same religion, I decided not to attack Mansa becuase he's south of the Jungle and I Start far in the north and I Blocked Mansa from expanding north so now I'm happily rexing and happily playing the SE.

Anyway I just wanted to ask if the Monarch BTS AI getting Liberalism by 1080AD is a normal thing? I get the reason why is that Mansa got some of the religons.

Hindu, Jud, Christ. While the other continent is either Bud, Conf or Tao... And I Get the feeling one of them is hogging all the religions for a Cultural Victory.

 

[oyzar]

not that strange no. Normal progress is to get CS somewhere in the BC years and lib well before 1K AD.

 

[MrCynical]

It's certainly not exceptional for an AI to get Liberalism about that date. Even with the slower BtS AI tech pace I wouldn't expect to win a Liberalism race that late.

 

[Gooblah]

Mansa Musa still exists?! Take him out quickly then sue for his techs. So much easier than attempting to trade with him..

 

[carl corey]

My last game was on BtS (Solver's patch) Emperor with Genghis Khan and I was the first to Liberalism in 1320AD, so your game is an exception. As you said the other continent is probably one happy bunch of religious friends. I've had that happen with Hannibal & Huayna Capac sharing a religion, they were untouchable in the tech race. I routinely manage to grab Liberalism first in the 1500s on Monarch.

 

[Elrohir]

It wouldn't have been remarkable in Warlords, but that does seem a little early to me for BTS Monarch. I'm pretty sure in the Emperor game I'm playing right now I grabbed Liberalism about 1200 AD or so. Of course, Mansa Musa isn't in that game, so that could be it.

 

[KMadCandy]

nobody's mentioned their game speed and i know that makes a difference. i guess you're all quoting normal-speed dates? i usually play epic, and so i'm no judge of normal as far as when wonders tend to get built/techs discovered. come to think of it ... i'm not a good judge or example of normal when it comes to life in general either, am i?

as far as the event log, it's got either good news or really scary news. the GG being born means they're not all happy-we-love-each-other land, since somebody's earning exp fighting somebody else. or, to be a total pessimist, it could mean someone learned ALine and then fascism for the free GG , or they already have chemistry and are having privateer wars while at peace to get GG points (gosh i love that!!!). i highly doubt that tho. i think at least one guy over there isn't on everybody else's valentine's day card list, and you will eventually rule the planet and/or fly to alpha centauri and/or kill everybody else and/or culture the heck out of the place or whatever.

Mansa Musa still exists?! Take him out quickly then sue for his techs. So much easier than attempting to trade with him..

what? mansa is the easiest guy ever to trade with, there's no need to be all mean and beat him up!

 

[carl corey]

nobody's mentioned their game speed and i know that makes a difference.

Normal speed for me.

as far as the event log, it's got either good news or really scary news. the GG being born means they're not all happy-we-love-each-other land, since somebody's earning exp fighting somebody else.

Depending on the number of AIs in the game there's actually place for a lot on the other side. If there's a total of 7 players there are still 5 left that could include a pair fighting and a pair being religious buddies.

what? mansa is the easiest guy ever to trade with, there's no need to be all mean and beat him up!

He's also the one that usually runs away in tech. I had him on my continent in the Emperor game and only let him alive until I had troops to vassalize him. I don't need someone else to be the first to every tech, thank you.

 

[KMadCandy]

Depending on the number of AIs in the game there's actually place for a lot on the other side. If there's a total of 7 players there are still 5 left that could include a pair fighting and a pair being religious buddies.

yeah, so they're not ALL happy-we-love-each-other land, which is good . i hate everybody's holding hands (haha about that other current thread) and i'm the latecomer.

mansa is my favorite vassal, true. but still, i feel guilty being mean to the guy. so many deity games he's the one coming to me with "this might be of use to you" bronze-working *giggle*. but on my usual levels, yeah, if the map works out, i sometimes try to cripple him, vassalize him, then make him useful. but i'm not mean about it!

 

[shyuhe]

1080 seems a little early for Bts. I would expect more in the range of 1100-1200 generally. I've seen Emperor AIs reach liberalism around 1200 in some games.

 

[illram]

Monarch BTS normal speed- yes that is early. But hey, every game is different. What you should be worried about is that it's 1080 AD, you're researching civil service, and you're producing 78 beakers per turn.

 

[Gooblah]

2 Things:
illram is probably right. I haven't checked the save due to a lack of BTS, but if your main science city is only pumping 78 BpT, you have a problem. That may be why your teching so slow
Mansa Musa is a good trader...until you have no more techs to trade with him. In Noble and above, if you're isolated from his continent (i.e, on a different one), he'll probably hit Liberalism by the time you find him using Optics. If the game stretches to the point he hits Assembly Line, he'll start spamming military till he's untouchable, then goes back and hits Future Tech by the 1920s...

 

[DaveMcW]

I hope you are going to research Calendar next to hook up the happiness resources and drop your luxury tax.

 

[kniteowl]

Yes I'm playing Normal Speed and I'm also play Specialist Economy, Notice all the courthouses, I'm actually using my citizens to work hammer tiles therefore they're aren't running as specialist or else my beaker count would be higher.

Back in Warlords I'd usually Bulb my techs with the Specialist Economy but since the BTS AI is relatively slow at teching I decided to settle them all as super specialist.

Mansa's on my Continent, I have Philosophy on Mansa and I wasn't not the 1st one to the tech, was short by a few turns by a mistake, appearantly a GS will both bulb Maths and Alphabet before Philosophy, didn't know the new rule and couldn't be bothered to restart so I continued and ended up not founding Taoism and I eventually will have Civil Service on Mansa... of course he has many other techs on me, it's strange that he stops expanding at 3 cities then focus on verticle expansion.

I've actually played till 1600 hundred AD and well I'll load both the Initial Start and 1080 AD Start game if anyones interested, if you want to know more read the spoilers.

Spoiler :

By the time I got Optics, after I teched Education, Nationalism and Constitution for Rep for the SE, (Optics only took 2-3 turns) I found the other AIs Appearantly for the map so far 1 was detroyed and and there were 2 friendly Vassals, there were two AIs that could keep up with me, De Gaulle who had Military Tradition on me but I had Constitution on him, and the only 1 way ahead of me was Willem van Oranje of the Dutch (Creative/Financial) he was definitely the one 1st to Liberalism and he also had 4-5 others tech I didn't have :S, I decided trade with Mansa to see if I could catch up to him, De Gaulle was annoyed with me so I couldn't trade with him, by 1600 when i could see what Willem was teching from EP, he was almost finish with electricity and I still had no techs on him (I'd probably just finished a Beeline to Biology). the game is probably winnable if I Replayed the game or research techs He didn't have and trade with someone if possible and possibly win Space.... and here I was hoping either an oversea domination or back door Diplomatic win... *sigh*... ah well at least it's exciting lol. BTS AI definitely better but this is probably the exception.

BTW I'm using Solvers Patch I uploaded the Patch like it was a Mod, Hope I did it right lol.

 

[tycoonist]

i can often delay liberalism until 1300-1400 on monarch BTS

 

[Grimz101]

i feel your pain played a hemisphere large map with 13 AI on my Continent its Me and Shaka.. a certain Japanese leader was there but remembering he loves to be in isolation and never trade techs or do anything infact, i rushed him with axes crashed my economy, had multiple wars with alex (this is marathon) and then after beelining civil service, engineering, and machinery to take out alex, i go for optics so i can meet the other AI and use philo for trading (lightbulbed it and got the religon) i find Mansu and Elizabeth way way ahead of me they were best friends with a perfect continent lots of grasslands, and they had been trading like junkies, mansu had 3 religons too..
I finish Alex, get infrastructure techs, and get a few wonders (im Charasmatic and Industrious with France) Mansu gets Spiral and University of S, i have AP and sistine however, Normally i would invade with riflemen against the mid-backward packs and take over but i dislike Colonies , so beeline chemistry and more infrastructure techs, privateers around all the AI pop like 7 Great Generals.. all settle in my capital which i give hero epic, and ironworks, beeline tanks then take over the rest of the world and win via conquest in the end .. the colonies i made were useless.. only good thing was i didnt have to garisson city with troops since AI gets two for free.. and got all the way to 18 civs

 

[Sjaramei]

I won the Liberalism race at 1444 AD once. (Aggressive AI, Emperor, Marathon)

The other tech contender beelined Rifling and refused to research Education so i could probably have gotten it at later date than this if i wanted too .

 

[Orion071]

1070AD is very early for Liberalism in BtS on Monarch. I find the the AI's hate to research Paper, so as long as I don't trade it to them, I can delay Liberalism for quite a while. In my last 2 games I got Democracy with Liberalism in one and Rifling with it in the other. Those game were on Epic speed though. Now that I play Emperor, I usually just beeline right for it and grab Astronomy or Nationalism like usual.

 

[mudphud]

1080 does seem early for BtS. The last game I played the I was able to take electricity as my free tech (I was spying on the AI to know when it actually got around to researching liberalism).

 

[carl corey]

I took a look through my logs and I have to correct my previous statement of getting Liberalism in the 1500s. That is the exception actually, it's more in the 1300s. Sometimes I could have delayed it further though but wanted to grab a certain tech for quick war or economy (Economics race).