AIs going off the hook

[orgonebox]

This isn't so much a complaint but an observation.

In more than a few games, I've noticed the AI going seriously off the hook. Maybe even off the chain. Insofar as I can tell, Tasunke is the biggest offender. It seriously takes no more than 250 turns for tasunke to hold most of a pangea map unless you do something about it early. Granted, most of his cities are poorly defended, but when he can mobilize stacks of flanking horsemen, it doesn't matter.

In my current game, I couldn't do anything about Tasunke. I was pinned down by barbarians and Perpenturd. Well, things settle down, and I was able to tech quickly toward Iron Working (playing as Beeri Bawl). While I had seven turns to Iron Working, Tasunke did not even have smelting. Five turns later, Tasunke is the first to discover military strategy, as well as Iron Working. Serious WTH-age.

The only thing I can figure is that since Tasunke had somewhere around thirty to forty cities, he put all of them on science during a golden age. Meanwhile, I was trying to build up an army with my six cities.

Back to methodically building up a stack of iron golems...

 

[Demus]

the AI could be tech trading, or using the eyes and ears network (doubt the latter during that stage, but possible). I agree however, with tasunke being a serious contender for strongest military for the AI, because it's both effective, and a strategy the AI can easily comprehend and put to use.

 

[Mailbox]

I've found runaway AIs to be a lot more common in .34. I've seen it happen with the Hippus, the Grigori, the Elohim, the Kuriotates, the Illians, the Calabim, and the Doviello. Charadon and Tasunke are the biggest offenders, but I've seen them be squashed by other AIs as well. It's a nice change but having one AI get so powerful so quick, it's impossible to catch up.

I'd like the AI to recognize that a civilization is getting too powerful and declare war on them based on that. World spanning alliances should form in the face of a huge enemy.

 

[orgonebox]

the AI could be tech trading, or using the eyes and ears network (doubt the latter during that stage, but possible). I agree however, with tasunke being a serious contender for strongest military for the AI, because it's both effective, and a strategy the AI can easily comprehend and put to use.

I thought that Tasunke traded up for it, but nope. Somehow he turned three techs in five turns w/out great people, although during a golden age. I checked in the worldbuilder - no one is more advanced than me as Beeri Bawl, but no one is as massively sprawling as Tasunke. I realize the AI pays almost no maintenance at noble, but seriously, Tasunke seems to employ the old CIVIII ICS strategy to an extreme.

However, two or five armys of fireball chucking Iron Golems should pancake the bastard. He still guards his cities with horsemen - Combat five, flanking three, mobility two horsemen, but horsemen all the same.

 

[Imuratep]

The Hippus have the big advantage that the AI can't do much wrong. It never uses the most interesting part of the Hippus the Mercenaries, but it doesn't need to, as the Hippus essentially play like a vanilla rush civ except of course you have commando which the AI uses quite good.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Bet you he popped it from a dungeon. I've had Tasunke get IW that way before turn 200 on normal speed, and he only had like a third of his landmass.

 

[Annex]

I'd like the AI to recognize that a civilization is getting too powerful and declare war on them based on that. World spanning alliances should form in the face of a huge enemy.

I would love to see this happen, but often the rest of the world is either friendly towards the offender, or I get the message "We are afraid of their military might"

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I wish that the AI's willingness was more dependant on its opinion of other players (the numerical value instead of just the "Friendly" or "Pleased" opinion), and less dependent on an arbitrary number of turns that it must have had a permanent alliance or defensive pact. It should also take into account how much it hates or fears other rivals when making such decisions.

 

[ChinaBlue]

I wish that the AI's willingness was more dependant on its opinion of other players (the numerical value instead of just the "Friendly" or "Pleased" opinion), and less dependent on an arbitrary number of turns that it must have had a permanent alliance or defensive pact. It should also take into account how much it hates or fears other rivals when making such decisions.

yes Id love it to be like that.

the hippus show up in my every single game, 8 ais, always.
boring. i restart sometimes because of it.
this huge ugly lightgreen blob on the map with flying horses coming out snathing my workers

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In the next version of FF, you would have the option to prevent specific civs from being randomly assigned in any given game. That could help you avoid the constant Hippus onslaughts.

 

[ChinaBlue]

Great, this option should be in the main game..that I'm still learning.
FF is too much for me now

 

[Ksi]

You guys don't like this? It makes the game so much more interesting. Deity games with hippus/illians are amazing ! It is much better than before where turtling up and building a military worked. Now you have to use your brain to beat them.

I was first in my last game (middle game after conquering the majority of two neighbours on a huge island -- I was sidar and the adepts were finally changing to GP which means lots of wonders) then the Hippus came and conquered pretty much the entire mainland which must have been way over 40+ cities. They outscored me by more than 2000 points. I was playing with all unique features so they had at least 4 as well. I remember Yggdrasil, Patria, and the Mirror for sure.

Winning was ridiculous but I managed with a powerful navy defending chokes and flanking while bringing about armageddon by razing what I could and retreating. Took the last Sheaim city to get Ragnarok. Eventually Hyboyrem became strong enough to help me start hacking away at the hippus. I razed cities around unique features and gave cities to the infernal to make hell spread through the hippus lands really fast crippling their resources. I love it.

 

[ChinaBlue]

Having to use my brain is a good thing but every game same opponent gets old very soon.

 

[Annex]

You guys don't like this? It makes the game so much more interesting. Deity games with hippus/illians are amazing ! It is much better than before where turtling up and building a military worked. Now you have to use your brain to beat them.

I was first in my last game (middle game after conquering the majority of two neighbours on a huge island -- I was sidar and the adepts were finally changing to GP which means lots of wonders) then the Hippus came and conquered pretty much the entire mainland which must have been way over 40+ cities. They outscored me by more than 2000 points. I was playing with all unique features so they had at least 4 as well. I remember Yggdrasil, Patria, and the Mirror for sure.

Winning was ridiculous but I managed with a powerful navy defending chokes and flanking while bringing about armageddon by razing what I could and retreating. Took the last Sheaim city to get Ragnarok. Eventually Hyboyrem became strong enough to help me start hacking away at the hippus. I razed cities around unique features and gave cities to the infernal to make hell spread through the hippus lands really fast crippling their resources. I love it.

I agree with you. It used to be that whenever you passed a certain tech point like iron working or warhorses, you were guaranteed the victory. Now they've done a much better job at making the AI's better late in the game.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Of course, Dwarven Druids, fireball spamming golems, high priests of winter, the Empyrean stack-killers, and to a lesser extent the AV ones and entropy 3 archmages still horribly mangle them. Auric Ascended too, though he costs an arm and a leg to get. And because of the freebies the AIs lost on higher difficulties it's much easier to win a tech race to the religious ones. You ever seen a stack of like 30 promoted ogres get brought to their knees by a pair of crowns of brilliance, then killed execution-style by a bunch of bronze swordsmen? Nasty stuff.

.34's changes made a few war strategies which were already good even better, while neutering all others, on the highest levels. On reflection, I hate this change. Robs FfH of some of the variety which is its biggest draw.

 

[Ksi]

Of course, Dwarven Druids, fireball spamming golems, high priests of winter, the Empyrean stack-killers, and to a lesser extent the AV ones and entropy 3 archmages still horribly mangle them. Auric Ascended too, though he costs an arm and a leg to get. And because of the freebies the AIs lost on higher difficulties it's much easier to win a tech race to the religious ones. You ever seen a stack of like 30 promoted ogres get brought to their knees by a pair of crowns of brilliance, then killed execution-style by a bunch of bronze swordsmen? Nasty stuff.

.34's changes made a few war strategies which were already good even better, while neutering all others, on the highest levels. On reflection, I hate this change. Robs FfH of some of the variety which is its biggest draw.

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing here. I agree with you that .34 made several war strategies even better but I do not think they neutered others. They just feel that way because some strategies are understood by the AI better. They are superior because they have been improved, not because the others have been crushed. They are weaker as a side-effect but by no means neutered.

You also mentioned they are still mangled by things such as 3 archmages and AA. Pre-34 both of these would mean you won no matter what -- I am quite aware AA was not in pre-34 but it has no bearing on my point. As Annex pointed out and most of the older FFH players can attest to, it used to be when you reach a certain tech you'd won. Sometimes this was even iron working. By the time strength of will came around you must try very hard if you want to lose pre-34.

So basically they are still mangled as you say by things such as archmages but the only difference between then and now is they fight better. My hat off to Kael & CO. for adding some late game challenge. I actually fininsh games on huge now because apathy no longer sets in.