Alright, not a newb, but need answers...

[Rebeljoe]

I've been playing this game for a while. I've played in several COTM's(not finished all I've played due to time constraints. I've tinkered with scenario editing, etc. But, there are a few things that just doesn't seem to work for me that I read about in these threads.

For one, F10. I learn nothing when I press F10 at first. At least, I think I'm talking about the right function key, if it's the one that gives demographic information and the top 5 cities. For some people, and in the QSC submissions that I read, they press F10 before anything else, and Vwala!! They've got every AI opponent revealed to them. I press F10 first(before any cities are founded), and I get 5 empty slots where the top 5 cities would be. And, if some of you play the XOTM, then you know there are usually 7 AI opponents. So, even if I do F10 on turn 2, then I would only get 5 AI opponents(or 4, if my cap is in the top 5). Maybe F10 for others, is because they use a utility that tells them all AI opponents? What gives?

Secondly, and lastly for now, the AS usually(like 90% of the time) refuses to trade with me. This is true even with the XOTM saves I play. They will usually only trade with me early in the ancient age or for luxuries. Later in the game, they refuse to trade techs with me for ungodly amounts of money. I've offered all AI opponents at times, like 200 GPT as well a a sizable downpayment. All I get is "They would NEVER accept such a deal!" What are they bleepin' idiots! That's 4000 gold, as well as usually several hundred lump sum in the offer. Likewise, the AI rarely accepts any kind of military alliance with me. What gives here, too? Do I smell or something?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Vael]

The AI is programmed not to accept x-per-turn deals for a 1-time good (like a tech or city, for example) to prevent humans from getting large amounts of profit by giving AI civs per-turn deals and then attacking them right afterwards.

 

[Gyathaar]

F11 is the one that gives you the top cities...

However it is F10 that gives you the list of AIs.. F10 lists the progress in space race.. and if you click the 'View Space race' button on F10 screen, it will list the AIs

 

[Rebeljoe]

Thanks. At least now I know that I'm playing the same game as you guys. That's nice to know about the gold per turn for tech and cities. Now, I know to just save up that amount of money and then offer it for a tech.

I usually end up rushing or upgrading things instead of letting the money accumulate. Now, I can hold off rushing for money and just build up several thousand, then offer for a tech.

 

[chunkymonkey]

If the advisor is saying "they would NEVER accept such a deal" that probably means your reputation is ruined. The AI will never trade gpt with you because it knows you have broken deals in the past. You may not have done it on purpose, but they don't care.

 

[MOTH]

It may also be that you are trying to trade more gpt than your current net gpt. If you are only making +5gpt per turn then if you offer the AI 6gpt they will go to never because they think you can't pay it. Try adjusting your sliders to 0%lux and 0% science before offering the trade.

 

[vmxa]

Remember if you broke a gpt deal with any civs, the others will know, once they have contact. The only way to avoid it, is to kill off that civ, before it can "tell".

 

[Brain]

The AI is programmed not to accept x-per-turn deals for a 1-time good (like a tech or city, for example) to prevent humans from getting large amounts of profit by giving AI civs per-turn deals and then attacking them right afterwards.

That's just not true. Many good strategies rely on gold per turn deals which often involve techs.

It's generally considered abusive to break deals immediately and I don't think it's allowed in the competitive games like COTM.

 

[vmxa]

Especially since you cannot trade for a city at all. It can be gifted or demanded in a peace deal, but no trade.

 

[Vael]

That's just not true. Many good strategies rely on gold per turn deals which often involve techs.

It's generally considered abusive to break deals immediately and I don't think it's allowed in the competitive games like COTM.

Yes, that's right, I'm thinking of another game...

Especially since you cannot trade for a city at all. It can be gifted or demanded in a peace deal, but no trade.

I was using it as an example of things that could be traded singularly... you can't trade cities per turn.

 

[Rebeljoe]

Well, I saved for several turns. I offered a flat rate of, say, 1000 gold for a tech and they accepted it. If I offer them, say, 50 gold per turn for the same tech(I have +200 gold per turn for income), they would NEVER accept it.

So, either my reputation is ruined and I didn't realize it, or what Vael said about the AI not wanting to accept gpt for techs is correct. I don't remember intentionally breaking any deals. I do believe that for a couple of instances shipping routes were blocked and a gpt trade for luxes was interrupted. That could have been it.

Thanks for all the answers,
Joe.

 

[moondoggi]

Alls it takes is a one instance of missed trade, and your dealing cash and carry. Also when you do gpt the AI doesn't value it the same as cash, think of it as a finance charge. I think about 10 to 20 percent. So the AI doesn't see 1000, and 50 gpt for 20 turns as the same amount.

 

[Renata]

It's generally considered abusive to break deals immediately and I don't think it's allowed in the competitive games like COTM.

Actually, it is allowed in the C/GOTM.

Renata

 

[Brain]

Actually, it is allowed in the C/GOTM.

So it's not okay to sneak attack but it's okay to suck every last penny out of the AI for peace and then re-declare war on the next turn?

 

[Ljdjr]

Brain

According to the GOTM Code of Conduct ROP abuse is allowed.

If that's what you mean by sneak attack.

 

[Brain]

Brain

According to the GOTM Code of Conduct ROP abuse is allowed.

If that's what you mean by sneak attack.

Really? I was pretty sure I saw somewhere that it's not allowed. Anyway, I kind of disagree with some of those rules. To me joining workers to pop rush stuff is more acceptable than repeatedly making peace and re-declaring war.

 

[Renata]

Joining workers to pop-rush is also allowed in most cases. If you're referring to the rules for the current SGOTM, the reason it's disallowed there is because it would make a hash of the mandatory variant. (What's not allowed is artificially sustaining populations above what the city can support in food and/or happiness. For an example, imagine a city entirely surrounded by roaded, railed and mined mountains. With the appropriate improvements, such a town could make an incredible number of shields per turn -- if it could only feed the citizens. With worker joins, though, it could be kept at whatever size the player desired at the cost of only one joined worker per turn, because no more than one citizen can ever be lost per turn to starvation.)

As to the larger question, a large number of C/GOTM players do object to some or all of the tactics you mentioned, as well as many others that you didn't mention. But many other players find the questionable tactics to be valid and sometimes even creative parts of the game. Probably most players couldn't care less one way or the other.

For as long as I've been involved with it, the goal of the C/GOTM staff has been to find some sort of happy medium where, even if many people aren't completely happy with the state of the rules, at least most people can live with them well enough to participate and enjoy the game.

Renata