Am I full of cr*p or does this actually work?

[Cannon]

Now I've been playing PTW for it's entire life and I just thought of this the other day.
Is it just me or does it cost a whole lot (2x) more to rush an improvement on the first turn than if you let 1 turns production build up and then rush it?
With this question in mind I'll give you the scenario. I'm Spain doing quite comfortably and I'm making new land aquisitions, some on other continents. I need some culture so I'm rushing temples and Cathedrals on new properties since I'm religious. I also want Barracks and walls AND harbours there quickly since some of these places are far away but still very important (for some reason all the diamonds are within one city radius, etc.) With 0 production the Cathedral is still a medium chunk of change to buy outright, even harbours are semi-expensive to buy without any production on them. Then it hits me: What if I set production on worker (complete in 10 turns in most of my nearly corrupt distant aquisitions), Rush the worker (80 gold outright), Change production to Cathedral/Habour/etc., And then hurry the building. I think I'm getting that 2nd turn discount by paying 80 gold to rush the worker. (essentially placing 10 shields in a Cathedral build.)

I'm surprised I haven't thought of that before because I've been disbanding captured workers/catapults to get a production jump on a first turn rush for quite some time and it makes sense to use the above strategy when AI 'freebies' aren't available.

Whaddya think?

 

[Justin_Sane]

Well, not exactly. From what I gather 1 shield = 8 gold, so therefore 1 worker at a price of 10 gold costs 80. A cathederal would still cost however much it does in shields * 8. So there's really nothing revolutionary there.

 

[Qitai]

Answer is yes. The cost is double when the production is empty. And you approach is the right approach.

 

[Cannon]

I think it works..... how much is a rifleman? like 500+ gold. Rush a worker and then you can get them for 200 something.....

I didn't see Qitai's post there.......thanx 4 posting Q

BTW I'm playing on Regent.....I know the build prices increase with the difficulty so this strategy is probably even more valuble at higher levels

 

[Justin_Sane]

Hmm, I wasn't aware that it cost more from an empty box than for a slightly full one... Meh, learn something new each day!

 

[Hygro]

Cannon you are smart to have figured this out. I learned this "technique" on these boards and not on my own.

 

[Cannon]

Thanx Hygro, I should have known it was in here somewhere......

There's some crazy stuff on these boards

 

[wtiberon]

I do a version of this where I disband an outdated unit in the city and then rush the improvement.

Wtiberon

 

[Krayzeenbk]

I've always just waited one turn for a shield to show up (I must have noticed this years ago).

 

[Cannon]

Originally posted by Krayzeenbk
I've always just waited one turn for a shield to show up (I must have noticed this years ago).

Obviously, everybody can do that.....but what if you want to rush 1 building each turn? (I.E. It's your only place on the other continent and you're scared the A!'s could take it.) That's when the worker rush strategy is GOOD.

 

[Krayzeenbk]

I know, I've done that too, but I really prefer to just wait one turn because this seems a bit over the very fine unacceptable exploit line IMHO.

DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to not use any exploits, I only claim to not use some

 

[Cannon]

I respect your opinion K, however, I don't feel that it is an exploit

A) Because I felt so d*mn smart when I figured it out

and

B) Because the game is won because the human can 'figure out' things that the A.I. can't.

 

[Grille]

In the age of railroads (or airports), you could also ship a unit into a city, disband it, and then rush the production. This way, you could also rush some stuff every turn (and spare the worker rush). On the long run, this is very likely cheaper (at least if you could use your productive cities with little "overflow shield waste") than core wealth production.

 

[Cannon]

I agree with you Grille and I would 'prefer' to disband something to get the needed shields, but I find that in some cases after I have landed on other continents with my SOD and settler I want to have EVERY SINGLE UNIT defend my new fort from the indigineous A.I. civs (some have the firepower to attack my fort). These large scale intercontinental attacks usually begin for me when galleons (hold 4, move 4 or 5) are the best available transports. Since they hold only 4, I completely fill them with the best, newest military units and artilliary and one settler. I usually don't have room on the boats for older 'disbandable' units. I admit that razing the AI city often creates disbandable workers, but sometimes I even want to keep them to make fortress and railroads. Anyhow, when nothing is available for disband I endorse the worker rush strategy.

 

[RougeKing]

How much are you saving by disbanding an out of date unit to get a couple of shields?
If you can afford to rush an Cathedral it seems you have the gold to waste.
Just wondering as I might try it myself.

 

[Cannon]

RougeKing, to buy an improvement that has no shields toward it's production costs twice as much than if it has even 1 shield toward it's production, so you could be saving hundreds of gold per improvement. If you have 4 places that need improvements you could be saving 1000 gold. On higher levels you could be saving even more because of the increasing build costs. You can get a rifleman for 300 instead of over 500, etc.

Actually to summise:

A) On a first turn rush, one must only pay full (2x) price on the first 10 shields (by setting production to worker and then rushing).

B) The production may then be changed. (to any desired build , yes, excluding wonders, ) The remaining shields on this project will cost the regular 2nd turn price. Ta Da!

 

[stevenx]

doubling the cost when production box is empty has been there since civI... so been using that trick long ago on civI...

however i thought civ3 is different, once u completed an object(unit or building) u cannot change the production... thought i seen it somewhere

since we are on this topic... ever experience why sometime certain cities allow building of palace, and certain cities don't??? i was trying to do a palace jump... and some cities has the palace option enabled, and other disabled... (ps. i know that when u are building a palace in 1 city, u cannot start building palace on other cities, so its not this reason)...

however it seems that those cities that are very very far from my current capitol will have the option disabled... wonder if this is the reason...

 

[Qitai]

you can switch buildings anytime even after you rush/buy. The only exception is palace/wonders. Once you have rush/buy, you can't switch to those.

 

[JMK]

Originally posted by Cannon
What if I set production on worker (complete in 10 turns in most of my nearly corrupt distant aquisitions), Rush the worker (80 gold outright), Change production to Cathedral/Habour/etc., And then hurry the building. I think I'm getting that 2nd turn discount by paying 80 gold to rush the worker. (essentially placing 10 shields in a Cathedral build.)

I am not sure you get a discount that way.
The way I personaly understand the 'discount' is:
1) you set your city to Cath. wait one turn in order to get 1 sheild
2) change production for worker rush it for 36 Gold (Not 100% sure about this amount) then set back to Cath. and get one more sheild the next turn.
3) change prod for City Wall and rush for again 36 or about Gold, set back to Cath and repeat....

That way it will take you a few turns to build your Cath but it will cost you HALF or less price.

Of course, you can do it in one turn by disbanding units
You set your city to Worker, disband worker/warrior to get 2 sheilds, then rush it for 32 Gold or about, set your prod to City Wall, disband another worker/warrior and rush for another 32 gold you now have 20 sheilds in your box for the cost of 2 worker/warrior and 64 Gold, then change prod to the next cheapest building you have, disband another worker for 2 more sheilds, rush, ect till you have enough sheilds in the box to complete the Cath or whatever you want to build

 

[Cannon]

JMK, the scenario that I am discussing is when you want to have one improvement/unit built every single turn, for multiple turns. If I 'have time' to wait for production then I will.