Amazon review of CivIV

[I_batman]

Look people, this game will be dumbed down. That is an unfortunate given.
The point is the vast majority of people who post on this website, are hard core fans, and I am one of them. But we are a small, small percentage of the gamers out there, and for any game to survive commercially today, it has to have lots of pretty colours and big sounds and mayhem. When Civ first came out, graphics were nowhere near a big a deal as today in attracting an audience.
I would suggest the average age of a civ player on this site is about 30,maybe 33. That age group is more interested in making the mortgage than playing a game. Firaxis probably recognizes that , and is dumbing the game down, improving the graphics, etc, to attract the 12-17 year old males.

The only hope the hard core player (who if like me loves the complexity and richness of the earliers Civ's, but hates the AI) will have is if we can modify the code to build this complexity and intelligence back into the Civ IV game. I am not holding my breath on that one.

 

[Godwynn]

Civ3 did almost kill Civilization for me, too many expansions and they were buggy at best. The graphics were too cartoonish for my liking as well.

 

[Markus6]

Can someone tell me how civ 3 was dumbed down from 1 and 2? And how civ 4 is going to be dumbed down from 3? I just haven't seen any evidence of this yet.

 

[warpstorm]

The only hope the hard core player (who if like me loves the complexity and richness of the earliers Civ's, but hates the AI) will have is if we can modify the code to build this complexity and intelligence back into the Civ IV game. I am not holding my breath on that one.

I disagree. Firaxis gathered the most hard-core players from this site (and the other major sites) and got their input on what would make a good Civ game. Knowing the calibre of players they gathered (bet you noticed some star players who used to be regular posters are kinda quiet lately), I feel that it will not be a dumbed-down game at all.

 

[warpstorm]

I was not judging good or bad.

I thought you said, "Unfortunately, this is what Firaxis wants the game to be: attracting new players." This sounds like a judgement to me.

 

[Drakan]

Firaxis gathered the most hard-core players from this site (and the other major sites) and got their input on what would make a good Civ game. Knowing the calibre of players they gathered (bet you noticed some star players who used to be regular posters are kinda quiet lately), I feel that it will not be a dumbed-down game at all.

That's exactly where I'd place all my hopes in Civ IV. And that's why I continue posting that this fourth installment willl be the best to date IMHO.

I just cannot stress how much I trust the elite players of Poly and CFC. They will know even better than the programmers themselves what has to be tweaked so as to deliver an exciting and challenging civ game.

The input of 100 of those players will prove invaluable. They will help to improve the C4 AI with their strategies which Soren will include and program the AI with.

I dislike the catoonish graphics I'm seeing but I'm more than willing to be put through them as long as the gameplay shines.

 

[microbe]

I thought you said, "Unfortunately, this is what Firaxis wants the game to be: attracting new players." This sounds like a judgement to me.

It was a response to the original "superficial" comment. It's unfortunate to the commenter (and to people who expect more profound improvements) that it is superficial by design.

I guess if you had held an impartial position yourself you'd have understood it better.

 

[Robi D]

I don't see how civ3 was over complicated, nor do i see strategy games as being out of fashion either. As far as the graphics comment, civ doesn't need super graphics, as its got substance. Doom isn't exactly taxing on the mind to play so it needs the graphics, otherwise why would anyone buy it.

 

[warpstorm]

I guess if you had held an impartial position yourself you'd have understood it better.

I admit that I am a Civ fan and am not particularly unbiased.

 

[Superkrest]

as dumb as civ3's AI was..it was light years better then then civ2's. and i was really glad to see some specialized units go. i agree that givin potential shown in call to power and smac i thought civ3 would be light years better then it was. but that being said , i feel it has been an upward trend in the overall game and i feel it will continue..though i doubt that we wont be back on this very forum after its realeas with thread titles like "what were they thinking" and soo on.. but i will only look for reviews from my fellow civ-ers..thats you!

 

[Slax]

With respect to Civ 3 being overcomplicated, I am not sure, but I believe it was less INTUITIVE than civ 2. I know three huge fans of civ 2 who did not in the least become addicted to civ 3 after having tried it. Some things I think may have been non-intuitive: culture, war weariness, the forbidden palace and gpt trades that suddenly become impossible to make.

PS - I, on the other hand, pull up the slack for those who did not become addicted.

 

[joethreeblah]

With respect to Civ 3 being overcomplicated, I am not sure, but I believe it was less INTUITIVE than civ 2. I know three huge fans of civ 2 who did not in the least become addicted to civ 3 after having tried it. Some things I think may have been non-intuitive: culture, war weariness, the forbidden palace and gpt trades that suddenly become impossible to make.

PS - I, on the other hand, pull up the slack for those who did not become addicted.

Can someone explain to me how to play Civ II? I found the disk and couldnt really figure it out after having played civ III all this time.

 

[rickb]

With respect to Civ 3 being overcomplicated, I am not sure, but I believe it was less INTUITIVE than civ 2. I know three huge fans of civ 2 who did not in the least become addicted to civ 3 after having tried it. Some things I think may have been non-intuitive: culture, war weariness, the forbidden palace and gpt trades that suddenly become impossible to make.

PS - I, on the other hand, pull up the slack for those who did not become addicted.

Right, unlike say each unit taking away shields from its home city (oh God how I $#@! hated that) , or your citizens becoming unhappy the instant one of its units strayed outside of the city boundaries of your civ. Or fundamentalism being completely overpowered (heck I would build the Statue of Liberty to get fundamentalism early!??!). Or having to play on Deity to even have it be challenging. I mean I loved Civ 2 back in the day, but geez this is no freakin' way I could go back to that. I wouldn't even remember how to play it now.

Actually here's a good story I was reminded of when I heard that roads won't give a commerce bonus anymore in Civ 4. When I first started playing Civ 2, I didn't realize that roads gave you gold, and I only built roads to link up cities. I kept wondering why the heck they didn't balance the game better, because I kept running out of money!

 

[The Last Conformist]

CivIII isn't overcomplicated, it's underautomatized. There's no reason that you as God Emperor should have to check every city to catch those about to go into disorder, or oversee routine clearing up of industrial waste.

Since the developers are apparently working hard at fixing this, CivIV should be faster-paced at equal or even greater complexity.

 

[homan1983]

The Last Conformist, unfortunately you couldn't be any more wrong if you tried.

Civ3 DOES have governors and they DO manage cities hapiness automatically.
Civ3 Can be configured to set each city to even concentrate on a particular aspect [production food commerce etc...]
Civ3 workers CAN be automated [even a new feature to automate them to the specific task of pollution and nothing else]
Civ3 Cities' build queues can even be placed under a governor so that it will produce what is "needed" (according to the AI) automatically.


The problem is that everyone prefers to micromanage EVERYTHING themselves and then they complain about it. They want the best of both worlds which they will never get.

 

[Gato Loco]

Yes, you can automate all those things, but that isn't much help if the AI that handles the automation is so incompetent. Personally, I find that civassist takes away most of the worst micromanageent (checking for civil disorder and tech trades especially). If they include similar features for the advisors in civ4, I for one won't complain about micromanagement