An early-game compact empire strategy

Acadien

Chieftain
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
63
Hey Guys,

I have just registered to this forum. I actually was quite thrilled to see an active forum about civ1. I am one of those who is just way out there, still playing civ1 and unable to relate much with late gamers.

This is actually the fisrt time I ever bother to participate in any forum.

For my first post, I would like to speak about an approach I often use when playing non aggressively, with technology (space race) as the main goal.

When I start a game, In the early game, I usually try to make the most of the initial land that is vacant and within my grasp an set up a dense empire, meaning many cities close by. I find this advantageous in many regards. For one, it is easy to defend against other civs. Also, I can rise in population over the other nations early because my settlers don't lose time travelling far to settle new cities. Of course, this means that those early cities will compete against each other later on. I can limit this by placing them diagonally to minimize overlap. Still, I can place two cities next to each other with only once space seperating them, And they can grow to maybe 17-18 each, with goverment set at republic.

This compact empire is very usefull when playing defensively on a military standpoint, at least until the advent of railways that permits easy reinforcements. It is also great when you start on a small island, and ensures that you don,t fall behing in technology early in the game.

Of course, most of my cities in this core will never get to be huge, but collectively, early and mid-way in the game, it seems they do more for me than a few large ones would. When some interesting land is found, I normally plan for a few large mega cities with lots of space. with modern technologies, cities don't necessaryly need to me huge to be productive (build factories and other infrastructures).

It just came to be a habit, bulding dense empires at least at some locations in the map. It's even interesting to deny some resources to the other civs by settly near their new cities and outgrow them (do to them what they tend to do to us). Sure it would be easier to just capture their cities but I mostly like to play with morals and just do defensive wars, wars of self preservation, or wars meant to manage and bring balance in the world.

So, to sum this up, does anyone out there ever use this approach, by setting up a very dense core of cities as the back-bone of their empire?
 
This is a very popular strategy in the Civ3 forum. They call it ICS for Infinite City Sprawl. Pack your cities as close together as possible to let them reach a medium size, making it possible to move between cities in one turn/move with roads. This makes a very tough little empire, gives you lots of cities, which means you can build a lot of things in parallel, and cheats on corruption. Civ3 has the highest corruption of all the Civ games, and at least in the unpatched version, is oppressively corrupt in all but your core cities. But there is a feature of the design that your city square itself is never corrupt, so you always get 2 food, 1 shield, and 1 commerce that cannot be corrupted. If you build more cities this is more shields and commerce that is not corruptable, where-as if you build fewer massive cities they lose all but 1-2 coins and shields to corruption. In Civ1 this is totally unimportant, but you still get the other benefits.

Personally, while I recognize the strengths I can't stand to play this way. I like fewer cities. Every city that I build slows me down later in the game when I get advanced. By the 1900s I'll be dealing with 40-50 very productive cities every turn and that takes up most of my game time. If I can instead find a way to reduce my empire or automate cities, then I could be faster. Usually I just end up building and selling colliseums in every city because I can't be bothered to think about each and every one.
 
Civ 1. It gets tiresome playing so many cities. I usually keep it small at the beginning, but there is a critical mass of 6-7 cities that needs to be reached before it is a good idea to switch governments. Once in Communism (my favorite Civ1 government), my empire expands rapidly. I generally double my size with settlers (so maybe 15 cities are actually "mine") and conquer the rest of the world. By the end of the game I'm dealing with easily 40 cities. Often times many more.

Civ 3 is worse because of the way expansion is emphasized. I enjoy Civ 3 but having 60 cities in the Middle Ages is typical. I usually end the game with well over 100 cities. Thank goodness for building "wealth" where I don't need to pay attention to what I'm doing from turn to turn.
 
Hello Acadien!

I know that some people use your strategy for founding cities.

Personally, I usually found my first city in the first turn (without moving around). Then, for my second city, I carefully choose the closest interesting location but without overlapping both cities' radius. I use a similar pattern for subsequent cities.

By interesting location I mean: coastal (especially if the first city is not in the coast) and grassland with shield production (or plains with horses; sometimes a river could be fine) and with enough squares for food (grasslands, plains, rivers) and production (hills or swamps with oil). I also estimate the location's future value (by engineering the terrain, I can turn jungles and swamps into grasslands).
 
Hi Acadien, welcome to our little community. The civ1 forums used to be extremely active a couple years back. But now most of those players have moved on so these days there is not as much actively as we (the remaining) would like. Goldberg, Dack, Picachu, Alex and a few others pretty much make up our core group.. with the occasional random dropping by for a visit. Said that, we are a very awesome bunch. Yay! Oh that's right, IC sometimes drops by for a word or two of wisdom (hey Irish Caesar *wave*).

I play like you. Peaceful, aiming for SS or HTC is how I get my kicks. However, a big hurdle is when you are around the pre-late game (middle ages I guess) and other civs start taking an interest in your island. Soon you have invasions left right and centre and if you aren't repelling them as quick as heck you may find yourself being conquered by a dumb AI. Keeping at the top of the tech game is a must. Also, a strong navy can do wonders on defending your county.

ISC. I hate it. I wish it wasn't there, it really unbalances the game. ISC coupled with an AC rush is makes even Emperor easy as. Try going for a Defensive SS win on Emp. Ha!
 
I play like you. Peaceful, aiming for SS or HTC is how I get my kicks. However, a big hurdle is when you are around the pre-late game (middle ages I guess) and other civs start taking an interest in your island. Soon you have invasions left right and centre and if you aren't repelling them as quick as heck you may find yourself being conquered by a dumb AI. Keeping at the top of the tech game is a must. Also, a strong navy can do wonders on defending your county.

ISC. I hate it. I wish it wasn't there, it really unbalances the game. ISC coupled with an AC rush is makes even Emperor easy as. Try going for a Defensive SS win on Emp. Ha!

Trada, could you please "translate" SS (Space Ship?), HTC, ISC (maybe you meant ICS - Infinite City Sprawl) and AC?

Thanks.
 
Actually, I never tried developing this way. I know they use this strategy in Civ 3, but mainly because of the corruption factor, which is much more important there. I never thought it could be effective in Civ 1. Will definitely give it a try :).

Usually I just end up building and selling colliseums in every city because I can't be bothered to think about each and every one.

Yeah, it becomes quite hard for the brain to keep the understanding of the situation in each of your 50 cities :crazyeye:. I often require a little rest after every ~20 turns to get it back in business :).
 
Hey all,

This weird thing happened with a game I was playing. After a while of playing, I then realized I had that cracked version that gives you like 30 000 shields each time you buy something. I don't know where I could still buy the original game in ny neck of the woods, so, I tampered with the game to purify the version I had. I replaced the Civ.exe I had with the civ05 version.

It removed the cheats but then My game changed completely. I had read that the civ05 version made the AI civs harder but man, I litteraly saw the difference in the middle of my game, as soon as I swapped the files.

I was playing like I usually do, non-aggressively. I appeared as Zulu in a medium sized island continent, alone. So I made the most out of my homeland by building as many cities I could, with a bit of overlap. Thanks to this I was leading in population size and technology. I eventually needed some land to expand in and it became apparent that we were in a world with not much land. So I went north and pushed the Indians back to carve myself a place on a new island continent. Then I changed the civ.exe file...

All of a sudden, The germans where in my face, and he surpassed me both in population and technology, then the Chineese rose and then the Romans. I went in a short time form the most developped to being a middle power struggling to keep what I had built. I fell down to a lowly war of corrupting army units of the other nations and bying back cities I lost. Almost all my resources were spent fighting a war of preservation against ALL civs. I fell even farther in the tecnology race but I managed to steal the critical technology, garenteeing that I could at least preseve my two-continent empire and continue my struggle for national survival.

All other civs were permenantly at war with me, even the inferior English, Indian, and Aztech did not care much about peace, even I if were pounding them with armors and the likes (technology stolen forn Germans and Romans).

So, I permanently saved myself by building United Nations and Woman's Suffrage, this ensured my existance. Germans, Romans, Chineese are all building the space ship. I'm not event in the race. I knocked out Germany out of the space race (I had a personnal vandetta for them trying so hard to invade Zululand, it kinda felt like the real history of germany's frustration with regard to africa in the early 1900's) by sabotaging all I could in their capital city. This is about all I could do as the romans look poised to sent their craft to Alpha Centauri before the 1980's set it. I Can still make an okay score because My early dominance permitted me to built a large portion of the early and middle game wonders...

So there you have it. How does a patch inteded to make bugs go away can change the AI ? Did they deliberatly change things with regard to that? I had read that the 05 version was harder and made for the depostic conquering genre. I'll have to test this but hell, I realy felt the change there, as soon as I changed that civ.exe file, or was it the fact that I lost too much time and resources for reaching a making a place for myself on the Indian island continent?

Any of you have experience with version 01 compared to version 05 ????

Acadien
 
Trada, could you please "translate" SS (Space Ship?), HTC, ISC (maybe you meant ICS - Infinite City Sprawl) and AC?

Thanks.

SS = ShipShip (win)
HTC = High Tech Conquest
ISC = ICS = Infinite City Sprawl
AC = Ancient Conquest

You are welcome.
 
Hello fanatics,

This is my first time I reply, since I did really like your stategy. But never tried to build my city with territory overlap.

Playing space race, I find it neccesary to produce a minimum of defense and attack units. Uselly my cities have one defense, and 1 of 3 cities have a catapult (the wheel is not discovered untill late in the game, horseback riding not at all). However, that make's you a potential easy target. I prevent that by kepping the AI at home.

As mentioned, I normally make cities without territory overlap and concentrating on development, building caravans as soon as possible, and diplomats.
My expedisions are often done with a phalanx, which I post on a stategic position. The best is it to seperate AI civs in the early game.
In that way they do not exchange knowlegde, and you can protect those pour chinese against the russians. Later on I always aim to have at least 2 strong AI opponants. They uselly bother another enough to leave your landmass alone. So later on (if not already killed) I disband my phalanx/musketier. The russians and chinese are know lined-up agianst another, wasting there resources.

The ideal situation would be that your major opponants are strong but on the same landmass.

In all, it makes interesting warfare if you join the battlefield in the front where their are lined-up. Just don't forget to have enough ships to keep your territory clean and the sea brige running.
There are far more efficient ways to win a war. But keep in mind the AI are not smart enough to use the dirty/more intelligent tricks, I have the best kick winning.

I while try your dense city idea next time,

Thanks for the surgestion
 
Keeping the cities happy is harder in 05 version 'cause unhappy citizens appear more often. Also there're some other gameplay issues. But I didn't notice significant changes in AI. Enemy civs were always extremely aggressive in my games :). Anyway, I prefer playing 01 because of its more player-friendly rules.
 
Herer is an example of the type of layout I love to build, tight-nit cities.

I play random maps and peacefully, so land is often scarce. I find that overlapping cities can still grow to over 20. Since I finish my games when I land on alpha century (or if another civ does), I find it useless to try to only have non-overlapping cities, because I won't play until 3000ac to see them reach sizes over 30....

In this example you have Les Mines, Bouctouche and Grand Pré very close to each other, with a total population of 50. For the same period of time, I could have had two non-overlaping cities of maybe 20 each? Here i've even fitted a recent village (Puksudie) between Grand Pré and Arkadie.

What do you think, can you bare such a way of proceeding or you just have to have non-overlapping cities?
 
Here is another example of compact city building, where I have created a little three city pocket for my land-poor civilization (I am second population wise but fourth for the land mass in this game).

I have three cities here, when most would only want one. They will maybe be able to rise to 15 each for a total of 45 population units. I have very, very close neighbors an the americans have lost patience with me and they are right in the middle, splitting my civ in two parts. I am able to survive by forcing peace (Great Wall, UN, well placed diplomats). With this close layout, cities of other civs are closeby, so it's very easy to ruch a diplomat and force peace every time it's needed.

So, I can survive with a mainly peacefull agenda and focus on building my civ by using such tactics, and I'm doing this at KING level with the 05 version of civdos.
 
I would call your civs "Super-Dense." I also like "Dense," compact civs, but not nearly so close together. The ideal is a continuum where every resource square is used, but cities do not overlap more than one or two squares at most. Then I achieve average city sizes of 25-30, I can stuff a good ten or twelve cities on a moderate-sized landmass, and concentrate on infrastructure (I have all my land roaded, irrigated and mined ASAP).

I've found this strategy to work 99% of the time on King level, SO LONG AS I fill up on trade routes with neighboring civs early in the game -- usually spending a good amount of energy around 500BC loading triremes with caravans. I also build libraries in every city as soon as I get writing, and I switch to Republic and Democracy at my first opportunity. Normally, even the civs thrice my size and population can't keep up with me scientifically if I follow this program.

I have to admit, I've never, ever won by conquering the world. I don't have civ DOS (the only one I'd play) any more, but I'm looking to reacquire it. Once I do, I think I'll shift from my infallible modest-but-intense isolationism to the more challenging endless warfare...
 
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