an idea from the WH-mod: Dwarven Hills

[Gelvan]

2. the terreforming in FfH is also good. we could use the Fellowship of the Leaves ancient forests spreading as a racial benefit for the Woodelves. (posibly also for Highelves, but to a lesser degree.) the Hellterain, like Ploe said, would be perfect for the Chaos deamons (im wondering if we should divide chaos into 3 civs, (beasts of Chaos, Hordes of Chaos and Deamons of Chaos) each could spread varying degrees of 'Hell'.
use this conjsept to allow Skaven to sprea Swamp, Lizardmen to spread jungle, Dwarves to alter hills and mountains to dwarven versions etcetc.
of course, one drawback of this is that it would be almost impossible to have some form of terraforming for every civ, so perhaps it would be better just to have wonders that spread terrain, or religions.

Hey what about the idea of making hills and mountains in Dwarven terrain to become special Dwarven Hills and Dwarven Mountains (Moria comes to mind), which provide boosts in tax and maybe even culture and of course increase the defense modifier.

So If someone captures a Dwarven city they would recieve some kind of a bonus from the Dwarven mountains - this would be intended - as the ones who conquer Fellowship of the leaves still have the ancient forrests. Dwarven "Mines" should not disappear after the Dwarves are conquered (again: Moria ).

One could give the Dwarven Hills also a food bonus, which would make it fair that they can't use Vitalize without Fellowship of the woods.

Maybe the Dwaren Hills could be spread like hell terrain, and disappear (degenerate to normal Hills) like hell terrain, or after x turns or never.

Maybe one could make an ice age hell terrain version, to build scenarios before the ice age started.

Also Dwaren Hills would be a safety against Hell terrain, because it doesn't make a difference if you dig under hell terrain, ice age terrain or normal terrain (as stated in the Flavour of Kazhad).

Maybe make them available only for the Kazhad because Lichurp never went under hills like the Kazhad did.

or make this available with Arrete, so everyone may do so (if kilmorph available). But I'd prefer to let it stay at the Dwarfs.


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oh and by the way: why can't orcs build farms inside jungles like in all the mods? I think this really needs to be implemented (without the need of using a mod). It works well, it is not overpowered and it's fun.

 

[onedreamer]

I'd rather apply it on dwarven mines, or make mountains mineable by dwarves. Hills are for halflings.

 

[Gelvan]

If there is a bonus on Dwarven Mines then you can not conquer this bonus.

there are no halflings in FFH2, they have been wiped out by not being able to grow tabac when the ice age ended. there's also no tabac resource.

 

[onedreamer]

Why should the bonus stay ? You quoted Moria... did you see anyone mining in the place of dwarves there ?

Yeah no halflings, still why should dwarves live in the hills ?

 

[Gelvan]

No, maybe Moria was not the best example... balrog infested thing and all..
but think about a dwarven mountain which has Dwarven halls, Dwarven weaponry, Dwarfs which build and dig deeper and deeper - maybe growing some mushrooms, finding some rare stones (which will be out with 0.22) which can be used for production - just a whole center of life, production and trade - a cultural mountain, known from far. So if you conquer such a center's main city and enslave those dwarfs - why should all their mines and halls and such be lost? at least for a while you could use them for mining.

Of course this would not apply to hills - I see my fault. This should only apply to mountains, which would have no need in being able to build a mine there - then.

 

[onedreamer]

don't know, honestly I can't think of an enslaved dwarf who would mine gems to give them to someone else... they are just too stubborn.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't see why we need a separate terrain type for dwarves. I would still like to see something like the Runes-specific road I proposed in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=210298

It would make mountains passable when built there (perhaps only to dwarves and/or Kilmorph worshippers). Unless someone decides to implement other special roads it would probably be overpowered.

II also wouldn't mind if the dwarven trait enabled move impassible. Then dwarven workers could build all the improvements you want there (if you make them buildable on the terrain).Peaks should offer defensive boni better than hills.

It would also be nice if dwarves could build cities in peaks , but unless there was a way for non-dwarves to capture it this too would become unbalancing. Druids and Beastmasters could of course already capture it, but it should really be somewhat vulnerable to more units (perhaps if it is connected by roads to another tile, then it is no longer impassible).

I would also like to see some way to get more food from mountains. Perhaps a new technology, Terraces, could allow farms to be built there, or maybe just boost the base food by 1. This however, would fit a civilization like the Inca much better than it would dwarves.

 

[cvlowe]

I don't see why we need a separate terrain type for dwarves. I would still like to see something like the Runes-specific road I proposed in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=210298

It would make mountains passable when built there (perhaps only to dwarves and/or Kilmorph worshippers). Unless someone decides to implement other special roads it would probably be overpowered.

II also wouldn't mind if the dwarven trait enabled move impassible. Then dwarven workers could build all the improvements you want there (if you make them buildable on the terrain).Peaks should offer defensive boni better than hills.

It would also be nice if dwarves could build cities in peaks , but unless there was a way for non-dwarves to capture it this too would become unbalancing. Druids and Beastmasters could of course already capture it, but it should really be somewhat vulnerable to more units (perhaps if it is connected by roads to another tile, then it is no longer impassible).

I would also like to see some way to get more food from mountains. Perhaps a new technology, Terraces, could allow farms to be built there, or maybe just boost the base food by 1. This however, would fit a civilization like the Inca much better than it would dwarves.

I don't see dwarves building cities on peaks, but inside the mountains yes, perhaps with a hammer and defense bonus and maybe some special buildings only buildable in underground cities. Though a peak with a dwarven underground city should definitely become passable terrain so it is not invulnerable.

 

[onedreamer]

it would because it would have a road which would make the peak passable.... I think

 

[cvlowe]

it would because it would have a road which would make the peak passable.... I think

I'll have to try that when I get home...

Worldbuilder here I come!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I believe I have tried and the roads that the game currently have don't make it passable. I think a special road should be added that does, and that these cities should start with this. It might be best just to make it so that a promotion can grant move impassible,and so that the road grants this promotions to any unit on it. If someone thinks of a better implementation,I'm still open to ideas (not like I have any say in the implementation anyway. This is well beyond my current programming skill)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

an easy way to do it, I think, is to give Khazad a building that grants a bonus for every peak in the city radius. +1 or 2 hammers & +1 food, maybe. This would be more useful than a tile bonus, since it wouldn't require it to be worked.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Is that even possible w/out an SDK mod? I know lighthouses (and the Lanun palace) can boost food in coast tiles, but AFAIK, there's no way to reroute it to peaks (or deserts, tundra, etc.).

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I have no idea. But I didn't quite want to route any bonus to the peaks, though that'd be fine too. I wanted to adjust the building's bonus based on how many peaks were w/in the radius. I'm not sure if I've seen that done before or now. But it might be useful in other places as well, such as an infernal building that gives +1 gold per flame in the city radius, etc.

 

[eerr]

I have no idea. But I didn't quite want to route any bonus to the peaks, though that'd be fine too. I wanted to adjust the building's bonus based on how many peaks were w/in the radius. I'm not sure if I've seen that done before or now. But it might be useful in other places as well, such as an infernal building that gives +1 gold per flame in the city radius, etc.

the effect is similar to health penalties, but peaks aren't a terrain feature, like jungle, fallout, tree, floodplains, ect.
i'm sure kael could do it though...(there might need to be a building to connect the effect to to make it easier)

 

[onedreamer]

why should it be so complicated when you can add dwarven mines, buildable on mountains ?
instead of metals, they can have a chanche to spawn bad stuff

 

[Gelvan]

so we have some possibilities:

1. change terrain to Dwarven Terrain (Mountains, eventually Hills) that provide more boni than normal terrain.

2. make a building that provides extra boni for each mountain tile inside the city radius.

3. enhance Dwarven mines so they can be built on mountain tiles.

4. make dwarven cities able to be built on a mountain tile.

any comments which of them is the best option?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The last 2 are worthless unless the dwarven civs' workers and settlers (or perhaps all dwarves) are allowed to move through impassible terrain. Still, I like those 2 best.

 

[attackdrone]

Having dwarven mines and cities buildable on mountain tiles would be superb - I know for sure that I'd be playing the dwarves, hunting for peaks to settle in, the instant this was added.

 

[Cornishman]

I like these ideas. It is would bo soo cool and deffinately give the dwarves a more unique feel; 'what there is a huge range of peaks (goes off to build)'. To the Dwarves and those with open borders with them, it would make routing more interesting, 'can u get open borders and and deffinately give them greater strategic importance in peaked areas, which are often densly populated by cities.

Would it be possible to tie in the Dwarves starting possition to suitable terrain?

On a slighty different matter, thinking of Races, and unique units, would it be possible for Racail units to tied it in to buildings in the city rather than the civilisation, (Elven Setttlers would produce a city with the 'Elf Building' Dwarven Settlers with the 'Dwarf Builing etc....) Otherwise capturing and improving Dwarven peak cities will be hard, thus meaning that if u capture a Dwarf city (or Elf City etc...) it retains its ability to produce those units? Also from playing the Elves Fellowship of the Leaves only works so well as you can improve the forests. This would make for interesting Civilisations where you can have access to other Civs units but only once you have some of thier people to make them with.