Ancient Age War

[MidnightRambler]

im currently playing a monarch game as the Mayans on a large panagea map. I started out with huge amounts of open land all around me. i usually just just get as much territory as i can and then build up until the industrial age and then go to war. this time, however, i thought it would be to my benefit to use my javelin throwing UU, so i started wars with the dutch and the americans in around 500 bc.
I sent all my JT (10-15) at their outlying cities in an attempt to get iron/gems, but just ended up getting mowed down by their spearmen. At the end of the war i had about 3 less cities and virtually no offensive units, most of my empire was in disorder due to complete lack of city improvements and my infastructure was in shambles. My ego has yet to recover and i vowed never to enter into an ancient war again.

Does anybody have any less disheartening experiences with ancient war or is everybody doomed to diplomacy until calvary rolls around.

 

[vdd]

When i am playing SID level, I typically start war around 3000BC or even earlier. I declare war and wait for AIs to attack my well defended capital and the only units I build are spearsman. This strategy will typically wipe out all AI's initial bonus attacking units and I will quickly sign peach treaty with them and blackmail a bunch of techs and even cities.

 

[Gengis Khan]

I almost always start in AA war or two. Just remember horses are your best friend(catupolts are your second best).

Horses can pick off wounded units & move back into protection of the stack. They're also great for taking a couple HPs of those tough spearmen, then they retreat where they can heal & do it again. After those spearmen are wounded a bit your swords can pick them apart much easier.

 

[narmox]

I always do AA wars now (playing 31 civs on std world map forces you to wage war). Usually I pump out a stack of 10 archers or so, then march to one city, and keep pumping units in my most productive cities (while the least productive ones are building improvements, my most productive cities built at least temples and barracks by the time I go to war). Keep pumping units and focus on one target at a time.

 

[t3h_m013]

ive had a couple of AA era wars and sometimes they can kick start your entire game. But i often feel like i may well loose them. archers just arent very good units... However i wiped out the americans with my jaguar warriors a couple of games ago (saved me from being boxed into a mountainous peninsula) and again with celtic swordsmen.fast units REALLY help AA wars

 

[K.F. Huszár]

I think Ancient Age wars can be the quickest and the most productive, but it depends on your choice what UU you have. The best in this case is Rome (legion), Celts(gallic swordsmen) and Persia (immortals). with one of these unit types you can remove two foreign civilization completly, but one neighbour surely.
all you have to do: reaserch Bronze Working and than Iron Working. hopefully, you are lucky and will posess and Iron mine.if not, go and get it with archers and horsemen. if i don't have neither horses nor iron i start a new game.
about the Enkidu Warrior and a Javelin Thrower: i think these units are worthless. if the AI has the Bronze Working, you will hardly smash it by these units. but the specific Swordsmen's (Legion, G.Swordsmen, Immortal) power lasts till the Middle Ages.

 

[Commander Bello]

[...]
about the Enkidu Warrior and a Javelin Thrower: i think these units are worthless. if the AI has the Bronze Working, you will hardly smash it by these units. but the specific Swordsmen's (Legion, G.Swordsmen, Immortal) power lasts till the Middle Ages.

Huszár, don't underestimate the JT!

There are a lot of strategies to make good use of it. One would be to hunt for barbs, making them slaves with no costs. Another would be to use them to take out redlined units, and getting slave workers as well.
As always, everything depends on the current circumstances, but having lots of workers for nil cost will almost always benefit you as you will get a good infrastructure for relocation of your military, connecting luxuries to your empire and as you will be able to make good (and early!!!) use of bonus tiles.
Not meant as criticism, just as a hint.

 

[unscratchedfoot]

ive had a couple of AA era wars and sometimes they can kick start your entire game. But i often feel like i may well loose them. archers just arent very good units... However i wiped out the americans with my jaguar warriors a couple of games ago (saved me from being boxed into a mountainous peninsula) and again with celtic swordsmen.fast units REALLY help AA wars

I always thought SAM's were the best for that

 

[Turner]

I love the JT and hunting barbs....Hmm...maybe my next game I'll play the mayans with raging barbs. Free workers!

Personally, I'm not fond of AA war. I much prefer using Cavs when everyone else still has pikement, maybe musketeers. And I love using Tanks on Riflemen.... They really should rename Tanks to Hot Knife and Riflemen to Butter.... Not to mention a four elite army of MAs against just about any unit....

 

[K.F. Huszár]

Mayan Javelin Throwers and Sumer Enkidu Warrior trigger a very early Golden Age. It might happen that you have 3-6 cities with few or no improvements, thus, this very early Golden Age is one that you can not extract properly. And more, you are most definitely in Despotism, and a GA in Despotism is far from useful.
I play Rome or Celts for an early ancient age leap thru a corps of an AI an by the help of a GA - by that time you have iron working and an iron mine, you can usually switch to monarchy or republic, before triggering the GA.

 

[joycem10]

The Javelin Thrower is also an excellent AA pillager, not quite as good as a Impi or a Hoplite, but not too bad. Just make sure you move them in stacks to be able to retreat captured workers with an escort.

 

[Commander Bello]

Mayan Javelin Throwers and Sumer Enkidu Warrior trigger a very early Golden Age. It might happen that you have 3-6 cities with few or no improvements, thus, this very early Golden Age is one that you can not extract properly. And more, you are most definitely in Despotism, and a GA in Despotism is far from useful.
I play Rome or Celts for an early ancient age leap thru a corps of an AI an by the help of a GA - by that time you have iron working and an iron mine, you can usually switch to monarchy or republic, before triggering the GA.

Again, not to critize you, but to point out what I'd like to say.

I totally agree that a very early Golden Age is less affordable than a later one. No doubt about this, although a Golden Age helps you everytime.

The most significant difference I see is that you are playing with certain civs to achieve certain goals.
I play random civs and make the best out of the given circumstances. And very often, I am not forced to have a war with just 6 cities. Typically, I have around 15 - 20 cities when I am going for the last AA techs. At that time, I prefer to time my first wars - if I can't postpone them to the medieval age.

Anyway, how to play is everyone's own and personal decision. All I wanted to do was to point out that the JT is not useless, but a rather good unit - but this is just my personal opinion.
About the Enkidu, I can't say anything, as I don't remember to have played it lately. As I stated above, I am going for random civs.

 

[K.F. Huszár]

Commander Bello, that's right.
If anyone likes to play with MAyan JT that's his/her own decision, of course.
BUT: although, all the civs are well balanced, there might be some UU which are less or more useful - i think it was not a direct purpose of the game programmers, it is a "human bug".
For example, in the first edition of Civ3, the Immortals were a devastating weapon, because there was no defending unit that could match till the Pikemen (or the Hoplites some times).

so, i keep my suspect on the JT.

 

[dgfred]

@MidnightRambler- You might want to try Celts (Gallics) or Iroquois (Mounted Warrior), both are Very nasty AA attackers with speed .
Both also are Agric. so they will grow very quickly to appease your building
nature . Religious will provide quick temples for culture and growth
and Commercial will help with the coruption in your LARGE empire .

 

[Pfeffersack]

I always thought SAM's were the best for that

AA means ancient age here (instead of anti-air).

I rarely fight in the ancient age, because in my experience it is only effective if you attack with numerous superiority (which means neglecting infrastructure).I prefer wars with tech advantage on my side.
Exceptions are games on Emperor/higher or if one of my neighbours seems to be weak enough to gain a quick victory, which gives me access to a needed ressource.

 

[Wladislaw]

Ancient age war can be beneficial depending on the circumstances. If you are scientific and near iron, swordsmen can cause havoc in the ancient age. Careful usage of a stack of horse, spear, and catapults can also be effective in ancient age.

One factor is restricted movement. There are no cavalry running around with three moves, and no railroads rushing troops from city to city. Choose a target you can get to, and road as close as possible within your territory. Don't give your opponent time to bring up reinforcements. The ai knows how many units you have defending a city, leave one lightly defended to draw them where you want then move the defenders and watch them turn around and head for another city.

Often your defenders have the biggest advantage in ancient age. Build walls in your border cities and stack up the spearmen. The ai almost always overcommits in ancient (in any age really) and cannot recover if you hang back and absorb the first wave. If you use artillery or horses defended by spears to harass the invaders, battlefield medicine is a long ways away--noone here gets out alive!

Ancient age warfare is also better in one of the mods that adds more variety of units. Troops of companion horsemen, and cataphracts for speed, ballistas for artillery variety, composite bowmen, lancers, javelineers, etc. all enhance your ability to strategize in ancient age.

 

[K.F. Huszár]

Wladislaw, i agree totally.
only two remarks:
1.i observed, that it is better to create two strike forces, one stronger (if no iron: 6-7 horsemen/archers and one/two spearmen OR 5-6 swordsmen+ 1 archer + maybe a horsemen if you have iron) and one smaller.
Send in both to the enemy territory. the AI will surely miss the proper answer.
he will let your stronger strike force to capture one of his cities and will try to recapture. till that, your smaller strike force on the other part of the front will be able to capture another city, before the AI could react. with your stronger strike force reinforced, and your freshly captured cities garrisoned (2-3 spears, 1-2 horsemen, 2-3 archers, AND a wall+a barracks), you will be able to smash the AI's main forces (let them destory themselves on your new city's walls) and roll on toward other cities of him with both of your strike forces.
If you were the same size (or a bit smaller) with your AI opponent, you can eat him up till the end of AA - maybe by a decrease of international reputation (sometimes you are to forget peace treaties).

2.

One factor is restricted movement. There are no cavalry running around with three moves, and no railroads rushing troops from city to city. Choose a target you can get to, and road as close as possible within your territory.

So, you have to choose the time of your offensive carefully. sometimes it is better declare war and let the AI come up with his cards and then smash him. he will send fragmented forces toward your cities, thus pouring his troops to the limbo. in this case horsemen are very useful, they can range through the enemy territory capturing undefended cities. BUT, you have to think in advance: if the AI senses a chance to wage a succesful war, he will provide Stacks of Doom, multiple attack forces, 10-12 archers in a strike force or so. Thus you have to be the first to kick in this case, so be careful with sitting behind your walls and waiting for the AI.

I never live peacefully in the Ancient Ages. It is the most exciting part of the game with quickly ending turns, easy to count your chances, great profit at very low cost.

 

[a4phantom]

I never fight in the AA, I'm just a jerk with city placement and conquer resources and luxaries with culture. I actually try to avoid conflict until I have cavalry, but sometimes I have to fight limited conflicts with medieval infantry in the early medieval era.

 

[Warwind]

AA war's are simple as long as your not attacking an 3 defense defender. I find just adding 6 catapults to my attack stack improve's my odd's greatly. What you want is two catapults for reg defenders , three for vet defenders and expect usually three defenders.

 

[narmox]

meh, I've done a few wars against greece and carthage in the ancient age (on Regent). Yes, those hoplites and mercenaries are tough - but not impossible. I once defeated the whole of Greece with endless egyptian War Chariots and 14 catapults. Only near the end did I finally get iron for swordsmen and a leader for an army of swords!