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Another WW2 scenario

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Scenarios' started by rhettrongun, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. kps666

    kps666 Chieftain

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    I see, they are high. tough work. Might be at the ressources, sounds possible. But I have removed the hitpoints-system, so many units get lost, so seems not to be the problem. I am thinking if a defined flavor for every leader/civ could help, raising at every evolution of new weapons... Could AI easy force to build his units in order you defined it. Could also force the mix of air/land/siege/sea units.
     
  2. Farrapo

    Farrapo Warlord

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    Since the beginning I have tried to make this mod work and have never been able to do it. I gave up for a while when the other DLC's were required, but today gave it another go. I followed the instruction carefully and everything worked up until I went to execute the mod (yes, scenario is loaded, etc.). It starts executing and then dies with no error and locks my system. This is too bad because I love WWII mods, but man this this is a bear to install an execute. I guess I have to give up for good.
     
  3. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    This is the first I've heard of it causing a complete lockup (I assume you mean you are forced to reboot your computer). Sorry to hear. I suppose that's the problem going forward in trying to make a mod bigger and better. The drag it puts on a system becomes more and more burdensome.
     
  4. Farrapo

    Farrapo Warlord

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    Yes, alas, it freezes the system completely. I have been over and over the instructions and think I have everything right, but perhaps there is some minor detail. It is possible this could be owing to the fact that I run in a Windows7 partition under Parallels on an iMac, though I have been able to run dozens of other scenarios that way. I'll take one more look at the troubleshooting suggestions, which I only marginally understood. Would love to play this scenario.
     
  5. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    I thought I would give an update on where I'm going with this mod next.

    I was able to get an easy path to an extra large base map size by using Gedemon's 180x94 YNAEM to start from. I will once again owe him thanks if my map ends up working correctly. I wanted to customize continent sizes to my personal liking, so I deleted everything and started from a blank ocean screen. With the help of google earth and various other physical maps I pulled off the internet I have completed the foundation of what I will convert the scenario over to. I posted it with & without cities below for viewing.

    The big changes are obvious. Europe, the Mediterranian, North Africa, and East Asia are huge. This suits WW2 far better than the old map, and should allow for more dynamic warfare. It does create a couple issues though. The Americas (particularly Central/South), South Africa, Australia, and all of the oceans are distorted in order to account for the size increases elsewhere. I would have liked to just make everything bigger to keep most shapes more true to reality, but 180x94 is the largest map size civ 5 will allow without crashing. The other issue is that the game will undoubtedly play even slower. How much slower remains to be seen, as I cannot test the scenario on the map until I place units, set buildings, policies, technologies.

    Everything as far as what's needed to play a normal game on the map is complete though, so any thoughts on how it looks are welcome.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Perhaps you can tell me which parts are unclear, and I can try to explain it more detailed. If it's just the worldbuilder part that is going wrong then it should be possible to correct.
     
  7. Farrapo

    Farrapo Warlord

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    Thanks, you are always most helpful! Let me mess with it a bit more before I bug you further. I am assuming the world builder is the file titled "Sid Meier's Civilization V SDK."
     
  8. dlmt3

    dlmt3 Chieftain

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    I am sorry, but that map looks, how do I say it, awful.

    An invasion of America would be awful, city health and strength would have to be nerfed. A lot.

    Just the map is hard to look at. Africa is distorted terribly. Everything is just so far off.
     
  9. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Your criticism is well received, so I'll simply try to explain.

    The thing is Africa has to look that way if I wanted to increase Europe size. This is because it shares a coastline along the Med. So, the larger the med is => the further North Africa has to bulge out into what should be the mid Atlantic. The same thing applies to southern Africa. The larger I make Europe the less space there is for South Africa. For me it is a case of costs versus benefits when considering the distortions. For WW2, I figured a very detailed Europe is the number 1 key.

    Keep in mind too that everything is a little bigger than you might think, because the overall map size inceased from 120x80 to 180x94.
     
  10. dlmt3

    dlmt3 Chieftain

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    I get the whole balancing north africa with Europe, but it just doesn't seem to be as global of a conflict anymore. With America decreased in size it just seems off. But I dont know, I guess only testing will decide if it is a right move or not.

    And like I said before, from the look of city placement, city health and strength will have to be lowered. Or else the defenders will have way to large of an advantage, and the gameplay will be boring.
     
  11. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    I think the level of zoom that I used to get those world views created a deceptive view of the scale. In reality all continents increased in size except for maybe Australia, which is about the same size as before. Here is a comparison of how much bigger things have gotten in Europe first, and then even in America as well. The level of zoom used in these pictures is equivalent.

    As you can see the difference in Europe is huge. The space between cities is about the same, and might even be larger than before. The USA is larger too, and particularly so in terms of the 'y' axis. Plus remember that cities only have an attack range of 1 in this mod, so even if they were close together getting attacked by more than one city at a time is almost impossible.

    The only items that are actually smaller on the new map are the oceans. This is only to a slight degree too. You can see this difference by noticing how Hawaii is slightly closer to mainland America than before.
    The other thing to keep in mind is that I still have the old map, and can always maintain it as a separate version.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Farrapo

    Farrapo Warlord

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    I made some progress. I had used the WB and saved the map over the old one in the Maps folder, but had neglected to go back and move out the old map in the Mods folder. So now it begins loading as it should, but after quite a few minutes the game crashes. I've tried it twice with different countries. I cleared the cache prior. Sigh.
     
  13. dlmt3

    dlmt3 Chieftain

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    Alright yes that was very deceptive before. America does look normal.

    My issue with the cities is how much health they have, taking a city can take multiple turns, I feel cities should not be that strong, and with this enhanced map and with a bunch more cities, it will be hell trying to overrun cities. The city health is just too high at 50 for this map, when it takes turns to take a city that has no units garrisoned or anywhere near it, that is, in my opinion, a problem.
     
  14. Farrapo

    Farrapo Warlord

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    Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
    Application Name: CivilizationV.exe
    Application Version: 1.0.1.383
    Application Timestamp: 4e41c1b0
    Fault Module Name: MSVCR90.dll
    Fault Module Version: 9.0.30729.6161
    Fault Module Timestamp: 4dace5b9
    Exception Code: c0000005
    Exception Offset: 00025e37
    OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
    Locale ID: 1033
    Additional Information 1: 0a9e
    Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
    Additional Information 3: 0a9e
    Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
     
  15. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    There are a couple ways to improve this without changing the HP, and they're things I had already been planning to change. I want to keep city flipping from happening too much overall (ie. GB invades Hamburg every other turn and Germany takes it right back the next turn, meanwhile the population of the city is stuck at 1).

    The first is to increase the city assault bonuses that infantry and artillery have. I think they are both slightly low, so I had already considered that worth looking at.

    Second Bombers have inherent city attack bonuses. Bombers are especially effective against cities though, since they have higher base attack stats and can attack from very long range. At the high end top tier bombers are getting inherent bonuses of + 60-100% on top of having a base ranged attack of 80-120. This does not even include promotion bonuses. In fact my own experience is that the vanilla promotion bonuses are actually too high in comparison to the inherent bonuses and can lead to imbalanced attack strengths.
    What I may try is reduce the promotion bonuses, while increasing inherents. This would effectively make more advanced units more valuable than before.

    I will have to look at this again later, as I have to go for now. At quick glance using a google search
    is indicating a registry defect problem. Not sure though, as I have never encountered it and did not have time to read a lot about it. Can you run other mod scenarios like Gedemon's ok?
     
  16. Gattamelata

    Gattamelata Chieftain

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    First, I'd like to say that this is a very promising scenario. I haven't had this much fun with a WWII scenario since playing Rocoteh's amazing WW2-Global for Civ III. I wish Civ V supported the enormous maps that Civ III does!

    I'd like to call out a few things that I like very much. I think giving units 30 hp is a great modification. It's particularly effective for naval battles, but it also gives land units an appropriate resilience and allows units to be withdrawn from the front once they're wounded, which I think adds a great tactical element to the game.

    I also very much agree with your decision to allow two units per hex. With the small Civ V maps there would not be enough room for units to maneuver in places like Europe otherwise.

    I have noticed some problems, however.

    The main problem I have is that any time the Soviets go to war after about a year into the game, my game locks up. The music stops, the cursor changes to the default Windows cursor, and Win 7 pops up a window telling me that the application has stopped responding. I don't know what's causing this, but I will say that in one of my games, the Soviet AI conquered all of Iran early on with no problems. Later in that game I declared war on the Soviets (I was playing Germany) and completed my turn (destroying many of their units, entering their territory) without a problem, and the AI completed all of the AI players' turns until the Soviets. When it got to the Soviets, it crashed. This is consistent with all of the other experiences I've had. Sometimes the Soviets declare war and then the game instantly crashes. I wonder if it's a problem with a later tech unit, because they always seem to complete their war against the Baltic states just fine. I should also mention that this was from my experience playing with v6. I just downloaded v7 and am hoping this will not happen there.

    Another problem I have is that certain city name values seem to be missing. For example, the Spanish cities of Vigo, Barcelona and Madrid all have names like TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BARCELONA. This is true of Santiago and Cordoba in South America, as well.

    The third noticeable problem I have is that the names of many city states seem to be just wrong. Belgrade seems fine, for example: Units are called "Belgrade Rifleman", Belgrade is called "The Belgrade city of Belgrade." Prague, however, is "The Kathmandu city of Prague." There are multiple minor nations that think their name is "Sidon." For example, "The Sidon city of Agadez" and "The Sidon city of Lahore." Chile is another good example: "The Belgrade city of Lebu." That's pretty confusing, since there's an actual Belgrade. When I get notifications that the Soviets are allied with Belgrade, I never know which one it is.

    Aside from the crash problem, these are minor problems which don't much interfere with my enjoyment of the game. I scanned this thread to see if other people were having the same Soviets AI crash that I am (note- it also happens when I play the Soviets), and I didn't see anything, so I'm wondering if it's unique to me or if I might have mangled something when installing. I followed all of the instructions and I haven't manually edited any XML files, so I can't imagine what I might have done to cause the problem.

    Thanks for all of the work you've put into this. It is a very impressive scenario so far.
     
  17. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Thanks for the feedback, and glad you are enjoying it overall.

    Interestingly I had the soviet crash happen in a game for me too. IIRC it was about turn 30 and I had declared war on them as Germany. As soon as the Soviet AI started to take its turn the crash happened.

    I chalked it up to a system problem at the time, because I had been playing for a quite a while and there was a lot of actions needing to play out on screen. Since you're describing the exact same crash though, it sounds like it was a fault in the mod somewhere. When I updated the mod to version 7, I found and corrected quite a few errors that I came across. A couple were very big errors too, so it may have been fixed. I've also been able to successfully wage a war against the Soviets in a game since then. Although I think it was at around turn 20, so perhaps the technology hadn't progressed far enough for the crash to occur. I never played too far into that game, so I don't know. Regardless, I'll do another check of the xml tables for errors before I upload version 8.

    I did not notice the problem with the missing city names in my game, so it might just be that it was a problem in version 6 (assuming you hadn't tried version 7 yet). I'll take a look at it to be sure though.

    As for the City-States, that is because I never went in and changed their names via xml updates. I only made the city name changes in World Builder. The problem I have there is the vanilla game only supplies about 30 or so existing city-states, so I can either use duplicates for some of them or go in and make them with mod buddy. I'll probably go ahead and finally put in the work for the city-states for version 8, as there aren't any more highly time consuming more important items that need to be completed anymore.

    Completing the new map looks like it will take a while, as there are so many cities that need to have starter buildings individually checked off on each of them. That's easily the most tedious aspect of making scenario maps like this.
     
  18. dlmt3

    dlmt3 Chieftain

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    Yes bombers have attack bonuses, but you have to remember the blitz *should* be able to take cities in short time. Not having to commit 7 units to a city to take it in a month. Especially not a city with no units garrisoned in it.

    What I think you should do is lower city health from 50 to 30. And make an extreme health bonus for having a garrison in the city.
     
  19. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Not a bad idea, but I don't know how to do that. It's probably possible with LUA, as just about anything seems to be. I'm pretty sure I can adjust city strength bonus when garrisoned and also base city strength, so I'll see about doing it that way. I don't plan on making it an extreme difference, but I will definitely test out adjusting it to a degree in favor of needing a garrison.

    I'm a little confused on whether you're referring to the AI taking too long to capture cities, or if you find it too time consuming yourself. I would agree that the AI has problems for sure. Not much can be done about that unfortunately.
    As Germany I've found things like mainland France and Norway completely conquered by about turn 5-7, and then Athens around turn 12 or so. Basically my experience is that by using air sweeps to clear interceptors I can come at a city with a few bombers and maybe an artillery or two. After that the city should go down on that same turn after a few infantry waves. Since you can stack them 2 per tile I can't imagine it being too difficult to capture cities. Especially if you keep in mind that I have already taken measures to make city assault bonuses higher in the next version.
    So far I have made the following changes:

    PROMOTION_CITY_SIEGE increased from 20 -> 33 (artillery units)
    PROMOTION_CITY_ASSAULT increased from 50 -> 60 (infantry)
    PROMOTION_BOMBER_SIEGE_1 increased from 20 ->25
    PROMOTION_BOMBER_SIEGE_2 increased from 40 -> 50
    PROMOTION_BOMBER_SIEGE_3 increased from 60 -> 75
    PROMOTION_BOMBER_SIEGE_4 increased from 80 -> 100
    PROMOTION_BOMBER_SIEGE_5 increased from 100 -> 125

    I also reduced the effect of vanilla promotions like shock and targeting to a small extent to try and balance things a little. I think it will certainly be a easier to take cities though.

    As for cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, or Athens then it should be a couple turns. IMO this is good, since those are capitals and they should heavily resist being captured. Losing a capital in this scenario, or any civ game for that matter, is kinda a back breaker. Regardless, I'll add in the city strength adjustments I mentioned at the top of the post and see how the new settings work out when I begin testing. I'm not sure when that will be though, as I want to complete the new map first. Hopefully setting buildings will go faster than I'm dreading.
     
  20. kps666

    kps666 Chieftain

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    I'm looking every day twice for new update, can't wait... Last playing I saw a historical error: The Swiss was neutral in the war and was never attacked. The swiss had big shelters and shipartillery in huge forts build in massive mountains (swiss is high-alpin on most of the squares it has) and would have been hard to capture for germany.
     

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