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Another WW2 scenario

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Scenarios' started by rhettrongun, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Sethyboy0

    Sethyboy0 Chieftain

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    What do you mean when you say tile improvements are slowing down the game? Does this mean you're removing them?

    One of the very few peeves I have with Gedemon's scenario is that cities cannot really be improved from how they are when you capture them. Part of this problem is no tile improvements.
     
  2. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    I mean that drawing them on the map in game uses a lot of resources. It contributes to first slowing down the game, and at the extreme end, crashing/inability to load a saved game or even start a game as Japan.

    If you notice the map initially loads with a bare view of everything outside direct view, meaning you cannot see tile improvements. As the game goes along you inevitably begin uncovering a larger portion of the map, and the game is forced to draw more and more tile improvements on top of already dealing with a likely growing number of units. This leads to the game taking longer to get through turns, and eventually crashing in game or simply crashing when you go to try and load a saved game that was deep into the scenario. It doesn't even appear to be dependent on how much ram you have in your computer too. For me the game tends to crash when it exceeds 1.2-1.4 gigs of ram according to mem tracker, while I have a total of 12 gigs usable.

    I think that having to remove things from the game to make it stable is a bad thing. Unfortunately it seems like Civ5 wasn't developed with these gigantic maps/mods in mind, and so it has limitations that we are forced to work around.

    My solution is to build the map more closely to how Gedemon has, where there is a relatively low number of improvements. Workers have to be scrapped :(. So, the only units adding tile improvements to the map will be great people and to a lesser extent infantry (who can build forts, but the map starts out with plenty already).

    Cities will still be able to be improved substantially though, as there are quite a few building options to go with cities. I've also added some buildings to fill the role of the lack of tile improvements, and there will still be a population growth dynamic.
     
  3. joeymiles

    joeymiles Chieftain

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    how about you make it so workers are included in the soldier resorce count? that way countrys dont build a ton of them.
     
  4. Sethyboy0

    Sethyboy0 Chieftain

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    Because that still leads to tons of tile improvements, especially after a good couple hundred turns or so.

    Having buildings to make up for the lack of tile improvements is good. Perhaps just having buildings that give bonuses to tile yields for certain terrain types would make up for it. This would also work nicely for food, since giving every city the ability to get a huge population would lead to very powerful empires (but then again, that would make happiness have a use).
     
  5. meNNis

    meNNis Chieftain

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    Jul 8, 2010
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    Thanks, can't wait for the next update :cool:
     
  6. jimmyjam_nyc

    jimmyjam_nyc Chieftain

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    Mar 19, 2012
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    I've only seen one other post about this bug, but I am having this issues where ships and mechanized land units are standing on end when I load this mod. The units are drawn correctly, for example, I see half the big red hull of a battleship sticking out of the water!

    I have uninstalled/reinstalled everything, including cleaning the cache files. I've updated my video drivers to latest, I've spent literally hours trying to get the ships and mech units to NOT stand on their ends.

    Anyone? What a weird glitch.

    This is a really really nice mod otherwise. I appreciate the work.
     
  7. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    I remember someone mentioning that problem before, but I don't recall any solution being posted. If the ships are stuck in an incorrect animation frame, it's probably a problem with the edited animation files that come in the common folder mentioned in steps 7 & 8 of the installation. Have you tried redoing that part specifically?

    I'm not sure what else would cause such a thing.
     
  8. Atchkizz

    Atchkizz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
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    When trying to load the custom senario for this mod after a few seconds during the load screen it crashes and i get a error message saying civilization V has stopp working. I tried saving it in map editor as suggested but same result. I can set up a game fine though.
     
  9. psstt

    psstt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
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    Hi, I played a game of this scenario about a month ago, and had a great time. It is quite nicely done, and the game feels pretty balanced. I did however have some issues and feelback, as follow.

    Issues :
    - The southern part of the map is cut off, so south Africa, the south part of Australia and south America are missing. If I open the map I download directly with the civ5 map builder, I get this error, so it is not even a result of my tampering. I am wondering if I am possibly missing some other mod or something?
    - The game was nice and playable until sometime in 1941, and now crashes during the soviet union's turn. No matter how many time I try, I get the same result. Are there some logs somewhere I could check to see what went wrong?
    - Playing as the Italians, I lose the ability to construct anti-air guns after the discovery of the first AA gun upgrade tech (Basic Ballistics I think it is). Somehow that seems to obsolete the old model, but not allow me to make the new model.

    I also have a number of suggestions for tweaks and balancing.

    Land:
    I like the current model, where cities provide Soldier reserves ("horses") for troops. I think it is a great system, but somehow it always seems that the infantry limit is too low compared to the tank limit (iron supply). Also, there are no fallback troops to make that cost no supplies. I propose the following:
    - Infantry go from 2 to 1 "horses"
    - Militia go from 1 to 0 "horses"
    - Tanks go from 0 to 1 "horses"

    This would still impose a limit on all main combat troop types, tanks and infantry, while not limiting the number of support and reserve troops one can make. Some types support troops are still obviously limited by Iron, but this would still allow some garrisoning of militia in the rear lines without too much impact on the front lines. This would also turn infantry into the most common soldier type, which is accurate in WW2. You should see many more infantry than anything else.

    Naval:
    I am finding that there is not real variety in the naval units. Sure, there are plenty of units, but they are very linear. A battleship is stronger than a cruiser, that's all. I propose the following:
    - Submarines are currently only effective against transports, but their damage to other ships is minimal. They should get some kind of bonus vs cruisers and battleships, to be a threat to these kinds of ships.
    - Cruisers should provide some kind of air intercept type defense for surrounding ships, to protect them from aircraft attacks.
    - Submarines should only be able to be attacked by light cruisers and destroyers, and spotted by destroyers. Heavier ships did not carry any anti-submarine weapons. Some of this may already be implemented, not 100% sure.

    This would give more distinction between the ship types, give some more rock/paper/scissors type of interaction, and force a bit more variety. Currently, I see no reason not to make battleships. Less battleships will still be more effective than more lighter ships.

    Air:
    I find that there is not enough of a distinction between lighter and heavier bombers. I see no reason to make lighter bombers, other than cost saving. Here is what I propose:
    - Light bombers (=CAS) should be more effective against ground and naval troops (I think they already get a bonus, but they are still not noticeably more effective than heavier planes). They currently have a shorter range, which seems adequate.
    - Medium/Heavy bombers have a higher range. They should be less effective than light bombers against ground troops, but have the ability to destroy terrain improvements (bomb resources).

    I feel this would stop making light bombers the poor man's heavy bomber, and give it the close air support role. This would increase the strategy in picking one's planes, and placing them on the battlefield.

    That's all for now. Once again, thank you for this great mod.
     
  10. minivader

    minivader Chieftain

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    Apr 11, 2012
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    i need help installing this i follow the instructions but on the mod enable screen the mods not their to enable i did everything the troubleshoot said but i cant seem to get it to work
     
  11. Atchkizz

    Atchkizz Chieftain

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    Custom senario wont work so I tried to rename it and play it with the "set up" menu as mentioned but the map doesnt show up
     
  12. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    @psstt: I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad some are still getting some enjoyment out of this. Some of your ideas are possible, and pretty good as well.

    The problem I ran into with this scenario is the crash you described, "The game was nice and playable until sometime in 1941, and now crashes during the soviet union's turn. No matter how many time I try, I get the same result.".
    That is a result of too many items (units, cities, tile improvements, tile features) for the game to continue juggling as things progress. That's why I imposed unrealistic limits on infantry count. That problem also kept me from addressing some of the gameplay issues you've pointed out as well. I spent a great deal of time attempting to work around the game's limitations, and even now the scenario is not completely playable all the way through. The last time I tried to play the European version of this scenario, which imposes even more limits on the number of items in game, the game still hit a crash point at about turn 70 or so. After that I just don't see the point of working on this stuff anymore. I don't have the free time I had before anymore either, so it's not even feasible if I wanted to.

    It was a fun experience overall though.
     
  13. joeymiles

    joeymiles Chieftain

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    ive found that if you play this game the way i play it you will never meet a crash. i tend to play it in the none 3d mode and it works just fine.
     
  14. kps666

    kps666 Chieftain

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    Feb 26, 2010
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    Location:
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    I'm watching every day for the next update of the mod, can't waite that the mod get's more to the perfect 10...
    But some fixes for the map:
    -In 1939, austria was belonging to the third reich (since 36)
    -1939, there was no tchecheslowaky state left, only slovakia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
    -in 1939, there was no pakistan. it belonged to the british colony india and was founded after ghadi's fight for freedom from the commonwealth lots of years after the ww II

    for the layout of germany: You should make the City of Essen on the map. (instead of bonn) It was and still is the center of german heavy industry and should be the mightiest production city in the reich (See: Krupp steel), like it was in original. Bonn was the capital after the war, but is a useless little city indeed ;)

    Hope I could help to make the mod more historical
     
  15. joeymiles

    joeymiles Chieftain

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    hey just curious how come i cant play as turkey/mexico? i kinda wanted to play as them.
     
  16. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Hey, thanks for that bit of information Kps. Always nice to find out more on anything related to WWII.
    I think a lot of the city choices were made depending on their location/proximity to one another, plus size. Although I think I went by current population levels when I made this map, which wasn't the best thing to do. I'll keep it in mind if I ever put an update out for this mod again.

    For now, I don't have any plans on when I might do that. I don't have nearly as much free time on my computer as I did when I was putting out updates every few weeks. Also, I've gotten pretty frustrated with trying to work around the unit ID issue and the memory problems that lead to crashes that I've described in previous posts. I can't really knock Civ5 much, as it's been one of my all time favorite games, but for making a grand scale WWII mod it doesn't make things very easy.

    @Joeymiles: I think I set them to non-playable civs due to their very limited access to unique units, and minor roles. You might be able to open the map in WB and change them to playable. If you do that the scenario will need to loaded from the vanilla menu.
     
  17. joeymiles

    joeymiles Chieftain

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    hey dude just curious do you still have the version where the whole world was included? i wanted to use that map for something if its ok with you and you still have it.
     
  18. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Sure, it's around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post it when I can.
     
  19. joeymiles

    joeymiles Chieftain

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    thanks man.
     
  20. dlmt3

    dlmt3 Chieftain

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    Do you happen to have really old versions on your computer still? Mine crashed, and my new one can't handle this map. Perhaps something from before the Assertion failed?
     

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