Anyone know why my crossbowman gets insta-killed here?

[Xoon]

So this crossbowman has taken 3 shots at Yokib and absorbed 3 city strikes totaling 28 HP of damage.

The next round, no units will move into Yokib and its defense rating will not jump up but it will wipe out that crossbowman (72 HPs) with one shot. Is there an in-game explanation for this that I'm just unaware of like an invisible unit or something? I've uploaded the save if anyone cares enough to explore this.

Deity, Gathering Storm, secret societies, heroes, expanded barbarians, and random tech/civic advancement.

Thanks for any input.

 

[kaspergm]

There aren't any other effects like perhaps a river flood that also damages your crosbowman?

My initial guess was that Maya produced a strong military unit somewhere which would make the city CS jump (one of my most hated features of the game), but you say CS remains the same, so that cannot be the explanation.

 

[Xoon]

No, so I played a few more rounds and healed up then went again, and that city's attack now does 81 HP.

No environmental effects or hidden units. It was definitely a city strike.

There aren't any other effects like perhaps a river flood that also damages your crosbowman?

My initial guess was that Maya produced a strong military unit somewhere which would make the city CS jump (one of my most hated features of the game), but you say CS remains the same, so that cannot be the explanation.

Okay, that may be right. When I say the city strength was the same, I meant the wall strength of 50. But I guess you're saying the city strike itself is something different and can depend on creation of a stronger unit elsewhere? I didn't know that and that could explain it.

 

[MrRadar]

City strike strength depends on the ranged strength of the best ranged unit that civ has produced. The displayed number is for city defense strength and does not reflect the ranged strength afaik. So Lady may have upgraded/built a Field Cannon or recruited a ranged Hero.

 

[Victoria]

I didn't know that and that could explain it.

Wall strength = best melee strength unit
Wall ranged power = best range strength
That can include a battleship.

 

[kaspergm]

But I guess you're saying the city strike itself is something different and can depend on creation of a stronger unit elsewhere? I didn't know that and that could explain it.

Actually that was not what I meant, because I didn’t know that was how it worked, but it seems that actually is the case, as Victoria explains.

 

[Karmah]

it's actually one of the most important mechanics early game as when war arises, having trained a single specific unit might change the course of the whole attack if you had planned a defense based on walls. Or the other way around and in your case, in the timing of your invade

 

[kaspergm]

it's actually one of the most important mechanics early game as when war arises, having trained a single specific unit might change the course of the whole attack if you had planned a defense based on walls. Or the other way around and in your case, in the timing of your invade

One of the most lame aspects in the game imo. is when you are in war, and the defender builds a naval unit somewhere else, and the defense strength of the city takes a big jump.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Wall strength = best melee strength unit
Wall ranged power = best range strength
That can include a battleship.

This seems to be a good explanation. Maya has a ranged unit with a much larger strength than your units. Battleship is a possibility, whether obtained normally (scientifically ahead) or through great admiral. Other possibilities are fleet/armada or corps/army that increase ranged units strength considerably. Since OP is playing with heroes it could be that Maya have one of Anansi or Mulan which are also ranged units. I don't know for sure about this last one. But you can rule that one out easily by checking if Maya have any heroes and which one.

 

[Vargas1]

One of the most lame aspects in the game imo. is when you are in war, and the defender builds a naval unit somewhere else, and the defense strength of the city takes a big jump.

I agree. Also why Norway is one of the best civs for surviving an early attack at high levels - likely to have cities on the coast, which means no siege unless they bring naval units (which your longships can deal with), and longships - which you will make easily and quickly - bring your base CS up to 35.

 

[Buktu]

cities on the coast, which means no siege unless they bring naval units (which your longships can deal with)

Which also means you can put a longship AND an archer in the city and dont have to decide between a second strike and high defense.

 

[Victoria]

Which also means you can put a longship AND an archer in the city and dont have to decide between a second strike and high defense.

Personally I like an archer, quad and wall ... I'll even leave the wall with 1 turn to be built to do this which makes it a lot easier with the quad outside of the city

 

[Xoon]

Yeah, I guess I just thought the units had to be in the actual city to get the defense bump. Didn't know that upgrading a pike and shot 1000 miles away made your city almost impregnable.

I think in this instance, they just upgraded from an archer being the top ranged unit to a ranger or something in another city.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Yeah, I guess I just thought the units had to be in the actual city to get the defense bump. Didn't know that upgrading a pike and shot 1000 miles away made your city almost impregnable.

I think in this instance, they just upgraded from an archer being the top ranged unit to a ranger or something in another city.

The whole city strike mechanic is absurd and needs to go. I have no idea what it is even attempting to represent

 

[Melliores]

@aieeegrunt

The city strike ability was implemented to represent a garrison - it has it separate health bar and once you deplete it, it is no longer functional. The Total War series also introduced static garrisons in their games sometime around 2013-2014 to limit cheese tactics. The Endless series also had garrison units in their cities.


It can be improved upon in Civ, yet it does what it is intended to - you can limit the impact of artillery by striking back, it gives you the option to actually have a siege battle in Civ (previously you could bum rush the whole garrison in one turn) and thus having time to bring reinforcements. It also makes the enemy use different types of units, not just cavalry to strike and retreat.

 

[DrCron]

Yeah, I guess I just thought the units had to be in the actual city to get the defense bump. Didn't know that upgrading a pike and shot 1000 miles away made your city almost impregnable.

I think in this instance, they just upgraded from an archer being the top ranged unit to a ranger or something in another city.

Yup, that's almost certainly the case.

I was also going to ask how is it that the AI has such low ranged damage on turn 200, until I saw the year. Is this epic speed?

 

[aieeegrunt]

@aieeegrunt
https://forums.civfanatics.com/members/aieeegrunt.331561/
The city strike ability was implemented to represent a garrison - it has it separate health bar and once you deplete it, it is no longer functional. The Total War series also introduced static garrisons in their games sometime around 2013-2014 to limit cheese tactics. The Endless series also had garrison units in their cities.


It can be improved upon in Civ, yet it does what it is intended to - you can limit the impact of artillery by striking back, it gives you the option to actually have a siege battle in Civ (previously you could bum rush the whole garrison in one turn) and thus having time to bring reinforcements. It also makes the enemy use different types of units, not just cavalry to strike and retreat.

How exactly is this garrison ignoring LOS rules and teleporting into my backfield to delete siege weapons?

You don’t want your cities to get bumrushed? Have an actual field army

You know, like people did historically

 

[Naokaukodem]

Wow I didn't now about that AT ALL ! Where's the manual ? That explains why i had 33 melee defense with my walls when building elephants in that multiplayer Gandhi game... just... wow.

 

[Melliores]

How exactly is this garrison ignoring LOS rules and teleporting into my backfield to delete siege weapons?

You don’t want your cities to get bumrushed? Have an actual field army

You know, like people did historically

Civ abstracts a lot of things to make it work on such a grand scale. Till walls get obsolete you can say that they are higher than the environs so they shoot from above - either with balistae, longbows, crossbows, cannons, depending on the era.

The city attack/health bar was first added in Civ 5 as an idea. Its main purpose was to mostly help the AI - it tends to throw away its units too fast, so having such a static garrison helps slow down the player and give the AI some time to find/buy/bring over new units to the fore. It is not perfect but it does help the AI.

 

[Naokaukodem]

The city attack/health bar was first added in Civ 5 as an idea. Its main purpose was to mostly help the AI - it tends to throw away its units too fast, so having such a static garrison helps slow down the player and give the AI some time to find/buy/bring over new units to the fore. It is not perfect but it does help the AI.

No it's not to specifically help the AI, it's to adapt with the game philosophy, even in multiplayer. Since you can't stack units in cities, they are given a health bar to not fall from a random scout for example. Even in multiplayer, you can't have your units everywhere surrounding all your frontier cities. One thing (1UPT) brings another (city health), Civ series has always being designed like that, although not always perfectly.