Are Carriers Useless??

[Free Enterprise]

I think I have an idea you may like, Mad Bomber:

Since cavalry appears before riflemen it should not attack the same as infantry. Instead there could be an upgrade with 8attack/5defense/3movement. This would allow cavalry to be upgraded to it, thus partially sparing the pain of wasted units and so many slow defensive units trying to attack. This units would not be tremendously strong however would be a lot better than the current cavalry. It could represent the 1870-1920 cavalry. I bet someone could make a graphic for it. Both infantry and cavalry working in unison ahhh. Cavalry can retreat while infantry has better defense. You could pick fast attack or slow attack with great artillery support, or use both.


Now about infantry, cavalry, and open terrain.
In World War I combat would often take place in a "plains" square you could say. Two trenches on opposite side with no mans land in the middle. Cavalry would have little use in this situation hence came to a permanate end. A person riding a horse doesn't have too many advantages over a person with a semi automatic rifle on foot. The horse rider cannot enter the prone(on crawling on stomach) position. In addition they cannot aim very deftly.

Yes in Alpha Centurai, infantry got a 25% bonus when attacking cities like . Not totally convinced this would work in Civ 3 though. Still infantry should be encouraged to take part in city capturing. The solution appears to be: add some *offensive* infantry.

In my current game I was stuck with a lot of nearly useless cavalry units after infantry appeared. I used to build cavalry even after I got infantry however not any more. You could just have infantry stand in the opponents territory and "turtle". This stops cavalry cold.

I haven't started a game/file with lowered defense bonuses in cities yet. So far just with standard default.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Fee Enterprise:


THe issue on calvalry attacks is a little more complex, in the Great War (WWI) a cavalry attack would not only face the artillery, rifles and machineguns of the trenches but also encountered Miles of barb wire before reachig its target, eliminating its most obvious advantage...speed. Try cutting down this wire from a horse, not exactly possible. THe cavalry has always been used as a unit to exploit a weakness, and has rarely been used to attack a strong defender. In the Civil War cavalry was used primarily for reconassiance and raids, but the cavalry also held against regular units. (Buford at Tharofare gap and again at Gettysburg) and were IMO used in a rather conservative manner. Cavalry only became obsolete due to the invention of the tank, it would have ben used in WWI IF a regular attack had succeded and an exploitation attack was possible. Infantry attacks without the support of tanks, artillery, or airpower rarely succedes, just ask the Iraqi's, Al-Quieda, and the Taliban fighters. (personally I would leave the attack of Cavalry and Infanrty at 6, neither was particulary great at attacking in the Modern Era) As for useless cav left over they are great for disbanding to rush projects

 

[royfurr]

DEFINITLY vote FOR carriers as being useful. Worth it for off shore support of invasions, and also interdiction (bombardment) of Resources and improvements.

I personally like to up the size of carrier capacity (aircraft carring capacity), lower attack stregth and modesly increase defense- but they get a big cost increase for this. Then I use the New Units thread of The Lab Monkey to add small carriers which keep the low capacity for carried aircraft, and the lower cost. This allows for the debate of many small vs. a fewer bigger. Personally, I feel there is a place for both.

I won't even go into movement rate issues. The entire sea units thing needs rework in this game IMHO. Looking for Civ4 to fix this as they won't in Three and it doesn't look like PTW will address it either. IMHO this is the biggest weakness in Civ3 (just barely noising out the poor units manipulation difficulty- which is somewhat better in the later patchs adding stack movement, etc.)

Civ on!

 

[The Last Conformist]

If you find that the upgradeability of Infantry weighs out the better movement and retreat ability of Cavalry in the offensive rôle, you're clearing having a different philosophy of war than me.

Any Cav suriviving after you've got Tanks can be used for recon, suicide pillage, worker capture, killing off enemy units left with 1HP, or simply disbanded for extra shields.

 

[gugalpm]

Infantry always ruled the battlefields since the advent of gunpowder...
And the guerilla won many battles without any kind of support...
Does Vietnam brings you painful memories?

 

[Mad Bomber]

OK Folks:


I admit I find the Infantry V Cavalry discussion interesting, but this thread is about Carriers I believe. This thread went OT due to discussions on modding. Lets please return this thread to its proper topic.

If someone would like to start another thread about defensive V offensive units, defender bonuses or infanrty V Cavalry then I will hapilly discuss these matters further in an appropriate thread.