Are just 3 Affinities enough variety?

[CaptainPatch]

Harmony, striving to "become one with planet"
Purity, promoting a HUMAN empire
Supremacy, proving Strength is the only real true Power, and therefore people should be willing to shed their Human parts in favor of cybernetic improvements.

Or looked at another way:
Environmentalist tree-huggers
Humanity bigots
Borg

No ability to squeeze in some alternative views? Like Fascists that want Power, but don't feel like carving themselves up to port in mechanical parts. Like hardcore Scientists. Like Pacifists that are content to occupy any space no one else is using and avoids confrontation. Like dozens of other combinations that don't require going native, is more tolerant of non-Humans, or mandatory machine grafting.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

 

[3of5]

There was a thread in this forum looking for possible other distinct (!) affinities. It was several pages long, but as far as i remember it yielded no results a consensus would have approved of. I think the bottom line was that Firaxis had cornered all the possible distinct mainsteam affinities. Sure different governments and societal structures are possible, but the affinities don't really cover those categories. They strictly adhere to the questions: "What is humanity?" and "What could it be?"

You can play any affinity as fascists or pacifist, with a scientific or a luddite approach... You can even play different flavors and combinations of affinities. Maybe you CAN come up with a solid forth affinity, But short of philosophical transcendence somehow resulting in energy beings (maybe through psionics, but espers and all knowning energy beings don't really fit into a hard scifi setting), i can think of none (its not even my idea).

 

[CNightwing]

I can see an alternative ending that fits hard sci-fi. Two of the current affinities are obsessed with going back to earth, the other content with planet, why not another that seeks to expand beyond both planets? The warp-gate technology can surely be used to colonise another world, or if not, can the settlers not try to achieve superior space technology than their ancestors? To establish a permanent human presence in space, one that continually sends out colonists to new worlds, mines uninhabitable planets, puts the species in a position where extinction is extremely unlikely, that seems like a very different aim to me. I'm not sure how to represent this during play of course, though the endgame would be the construction of a significant space station.

 

[Deggial]

But this wouldn't be an additional affinity, just another victory condition.

I can think (right now) of only one fundamentally different affinity: Spiritual Ascendency.

All three implemented affinities feature a physical evolution, sort of. Harmony splices genes and adapts to the planet, purity adapts the planet to human needs and supremecy adds cybernetic enhancements to the human body to emancipate from all environmental factors.

Humans might as well concentrate to their "inner powers". Frugality in their physical needs, spirituality, intellectual capacity enhancements (maybe drugs?), then psychic powers and - at the end - dissociation from the body and existence as a beeing made of pure energy and willpower: REAL transcendency!

Granted, this is a very "esoterical" possibility and does not hold lines compared to the other three affinitiey in respect to a scientific approach. But it is at least a common SciFi-meme and therefore might be a legitimate addition to BE.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I think some kind of spiritual or religious affinity would be a possibility in expansions. This affinity could also be connected to intellectual Progenitor aliens in some way.

 

[GeoModder]

The warp-gate technology can surely be used to colonise another world, or if not, can the settlers not try to achieve superior space technology than their ancestors?

Sure, if you can exactly pinpoint the surface of a new exoplanet which is at best a faint glimmer in the optics of your largest space telescopes.
Humanity on Planet knows Earth's exact location in space, but not from other planets outside Sol system and Planet's star.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Harmony, striving to "become one with planet"
Purity, promoting a HUMAN empire
Supremacy, proving Strength is the only real true Power, and therefore people should be willing to shed their Human parts in favor of cybernetic improvements.

Or looked at another way:
Environmentalist tree-huggers
Humanity bigots
Borg

No ability to squeeze in some alternative views? Like Fascists that want Power, but don't feel like carving themselves up to port in mechanical parts. Like hardcore Scientists. Like Pacifists that are content to occupy any space no one else is using and avoids confrontation. Like dozens of other combinations that require going native, is more tolerant of non-Humans, or mandatory machine grafting.

I think you are wrong in general, because we are not really choosing just one affinity. You can get points in all of them. You can go and take points in all of them and try to win Domination or Contact victory.

And in a way harmony players can be seen as pacifist and supremacy players as "hardcore scientists". If we get new intellectual alien race to the game (like Progenitors) it would also make sense that you get new affinity which is connected to them. And those examples like "pacifists" and "hardcore scientists" would be more like new factions/sponsors.

"Like Fascists that want Power, but don't feel like carving themselves up to port in mechanical parts."

Brazil+Weapon arsenal+Might+Purity?

"Like hardcore Scientists."

Elodie+Scientists+Knowledge?

"Pacifists that are content to occupy any space no one else is using and avoids confrontation."

I dont think it would be good idea to make affinity that can only be played peacefully. You can play all different factions and affinities peacefully or aggressively and that is definitely a good thing. But there are some factions that work well when played peaceful and going tall.

 

[3of5]

Sure, if you can exactly pinpoint the surface of a new exoplanet which is at best a faint glimmer in the optics of your largest space telescopes.
Humanity on Planet knows Earth's exact location in space, but not from other planets outside Sol system and Planet's star.

Since you have to build a laser com array in orbit as part of supremacy, purity and contact victories i expect the warp gate to need some kind of recieving mechanism back on earth. Many scifi warpgate tropes work this way.

I do like the "become a space based civ" victory condition, but wouldn't that just be a better VC for supremacy than the existing one rather than a new affinity? After all human bodies are more an impediment than an advantage in zero-g and supremacies goal of becoming independent of planets biospheres would work well for a zero-g civ as well. Many scifi works have this dichotomy between spacers and planetdwellers, culturally developing into completely different directions.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

3 Affinities (with levels in each one...although specialization is encouraged)
X
4 Virtues (knowledge, might, prosperity, industry) to mix and match..sowide optios as well
X
40 different continuous bonus combos from your initial conditions
X
All the quest options
X
All your diplomacy options (peace, war, espionage)
X
Different tech web directions
X
3 victory options (conquest, contact, affinity)

Covers all the variety needed
A 'psychic' affinity is really the only one they Could add.. Although that stretches the sci fi bounds of the game. (After that you start adding undead affinities, mineral affinities, etc)

 

[JokerJace]

I think Harmony VC is already the technically feasible version of the philisophical "light being" VC some mentioned in this thread.

 

[sugerdady87]

I don't support any spiritual/religious affinity because it's fake. No matter how farfetched the three current ones are, there is a possibility that they are achievable in real life; it's just a matter of time to allow the technologies to advance more. We can currently build autonomous robots, genetically engineer mice and create closed ecological systems. We just can't do them yet at the scale of Beyond Earth.

Psychic powers, gods, spirits, souls, ect, on the other hand, are all fiction and unachievable in objective reality. Lets try to keep it scientific as it is.

 

[Deggial]

I agree (being a positive materialist myself).

I just mentioned this possibility because it is a different approach on affinities - and the only one that comes into my mind. Additionally, as I mentioned, "spiritual/energy beeings" trespass the whole SciFi genre (how many of those were featured in 'Startrek'?) and could therefore be seen as valid addition.

Anyway, at the end it mimics the whole 'fountain of youth' discussion in Civ5. Scientific basis or not - the real question is: will there be an interesting gameplay experience? If so, I could live with its inclusion into the game.

 

[GeoModder]

Since you have to build a laser com array in orbit as part of supremacy, purity and contact victories i expect the warp gate to need some kind of recieving mechanism back on earth. Many scifi warpgate tropes work this way.

Don't think so. That would imply some kind of starship needs to deliver said receiving mechanism to Earth. And journey time was several centuries on the first leg of the journey.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Don't think so. That would imply some kind of starship needs to deliver said receiving mechanism to Earth. And journey time was several centuries on the first leg of the journey.

Not necessarily.. part of the Purity and Supremacy Victories is launching a Laser Com Satellite before you can build the Warpgates

Presumably it is to give instructions to Earth about how to build the other end of the Warpgate.. (and the communication travels at lightspeed at least..unless you have some weird way of firing an FTL laser*... your ship probably traveled at much less than light speed)

So I could see a 50 turn delay for being able to send instructions to Earth on how to build the other end. So launch satellite, then wait X turns, then You can build your end.

*this is also a possibility to make that an even shorter time

 

[Lord Shadow]

I agree (being a positive materialist myself).

I just mentioned this possibility because it is a different approach on affinities - and the only one that comes into my mind. Additionally, as I mentioned, "spiritual/energy beeings" trespass the whole SciFi genre (how many of those were featured in 'Startrek'?) and could therefore be seen as valid addition.

Anyway, at the end it mimics the whole 'fountain of youth' discussion in Civ5. Scientific basis or not - the real question is: will there be an interesting gameplay experience? If so, I could live with its inclusion into the game.

I think it could be said all three affinities have spiritual components, with Harmony perhaps having the strongest one. Purity's spirituality is unmistakable, of course, and even Supremacy has a religious tone, most evident in the naming scheme of much of their units.

As for energy beings, frankly, I see that as the ultimate expression of Supremacy. Humanity is essentially reduced to software during the transition to robotic bodies and/or megaservers, and even though it's unlikely to be covered by the game as it is, I can see Supremacy's objective of being independent from the environment taken even further. That is, independence from "hardware" altogether, transforming that orphaned software into an energetic existence which doesn't need any host. Not even planets, and is free to roam the universe with no impediments whatsoever.

 

[Lucius_]

Transcendance into some metaphysical form I believe is pushing the limits of sci-fi into fantasy territory. Gameplay-wise it would work and would make the addition of religion a viable mechanic in the setting, but I'd question if it'd really fit well with the other affinities.

 

[Ari Rahikkala]

There was a thread in this forum looking for possible other distinct (!) affinities. It was several pages long, but as far as i remember it yielded no results a consensus would have approved of. I think the bottom line was that Firaxis had cornered all the possible distinct mainsteam affinities. Sure different governments and societal structures are possible, but the affinities don't really cover those categories. They strictly adhere to the questions: "What is humanity?" and "What could it be?"

Ay, that would be Sci Fi Fans, any missing Affinities?. It's a good thread, lots of interesting ideas brought up in there, well worth reading.

Also, although I know that I'm more or less alone in this, I still think that Extinction would make a pretty interesting affinity. It's not something you could put in the base game because it really doesn't fit in with the generally optimistic tone, and it would be kind of meaningless if the lore ends up definitely establishing that within each game your planet is not the only one that's being colonized... but those things aside, it has so many things going for it. It's completely orthogonal with the other affinities, it comes about naturally from asking those questions, it's got a natural victory condition, it's easy to come up with a design style for, and in the game's lore, it's not that hard to imagine why people would actually be attracted to it.

 

[El Caballerion]

I'm pretty sure the first official expansion pack will feature a whole new affinity or two.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm pretty sure the first official expansion pack will feature a whole new affinity or two.

I seriously doubt that.

I see some new (in terms of likelihood)
map scripts
techs, buildings, quests
game mechanics* (this leads to most of the others)
sponsors
biomes-probably an arctic/frigid biome
virtues
aliens
tile improvements
units
colony loadout options
Virtue Trees

*Game mechanics might lead to a new resource...


However I don't see a new Affinity.. most concepts for 'how humanity should be' that are in science fiction are covered by the 3 affinities already there. At best you could split some affinities... or add an additional dimension on

 

[A Bucket O Spam]

I am thinking that there will be modifications to create more affinities with other goals. How this will use the affinity level system in BE, I am not sure, but it will likely make for some very interesting combinations.