Are specialist citizens worth using?

[Maniac]

A specialist providing two yields of whatever seems rather low compared to what worked tiles can provide. Am I missing something?

 

[kampori]

If you have high enough pop there's nowhere better to put them. So why not

 

[Cymsdale]

They are a consolation prize when you run out of space.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

You didn't miss anything OP--specialists are garbage right now. Basically they are never worth using unless your city has no land tiles to work. So it's quite rare that you'll want to run specialists. An occasional exception might be the Industrial Zone specialists, because they have the best yield (production is the most valuable) and sometimes you really need to build something quickly. But even that's uncommon.

A weird decision to not have specialists give great person points, and to not have them be buffed by policy cards or late-game buildings. If they're going to have them in the game, they should at least be interesting. In past games, there were really interesting decisions about whether to run early specialists; you'd get a fast great person, but you'd sacrifice growth and production. This game doesn't have that, but it easily could.

 

[gunnergoz]

I just use them when there's nothing else productive for them to do, particularly though when I'm angling for a type victory and need those extra points in that category. I'd like to see them buffed a bit, truth be told.

 

[Ogaw]

If you have high enough pop there's nowhere better to put them. So why not

This. And also when you are aiming for a specific victory condition like space project, then 1 production is good enough often (its all about maxing out production)

 

[Amrunril]

Specialists do seem very weak. It would have be one thing to divorce them from GP generation, or to reduce their yields, or to remove the wonders, policies etc. that synergize with them, but doing all three at once makes it difficult to see them having any substantial role. At the moment, what they most remind me of is Civ V's version of city projects, which isn't a good position for any mechanic to be in.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Specialists do seem very weak. It would have be one thing to divorce them from GP generation, or to reduce their yields, or to remove the wonders, policies etc. that synergize with them, but doing all three at once makes it difficult to see them having any substantial role. At the moment, what they most remind me of is Civ V's version of city projects, which isn't a good position for any mechanic to be in.

Another poster speculated that the designers may have somewhat overestimated the value of, say, +2 science or +2 gold or +2 faith, relative to food and production. If that's right, it might explain why specialists are so underpowered, why unique improvements are underpowered (they tend not to grant food or production), and why internal trade routes are so much stronger than external ones. Fortunately, this is an easily fixable mistake.

 

[MyOtherName]

A specialist providing two yields of whatever seems rather low compared to what worked tiles can provide. Am I missing something?

2 science/culture is actually fairly good, if you have a use for them.

2 faith only buys one cog if you have the relevant beliefs, but is maybe better if you are instead buying faith-exclusive things.

2 cogs don't seem all that great. But at least it gives a way to divert excess food away from growth once your working all your decent tiles.

4 gold... only buys one cog. It's maybe better if you need gold for its own sake, since you usually can't get much gold from tiles. Although 2 cogs buys 4 gold if you're building and selling units. (more, of course, if you're using the production acceleration cards)

 

[CaiusDrewart]

2 faith only buys one cog if you have the relevant beliefs, but is maybe better if you are instead buying faith-exclusive things.

That's so weak, especially since the alternative to a specialist is not one cog or even two cogs. It's a tile that probably grants at least 4 total food/production, and in many instances more than that.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

If specialists added to the GPP output of the district I think that would make them worthwhile. In fact I've just been assuming that that's what they do already...doh!

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

I think specialists are fine. The building itself, like a market or workshop, gives the important gpp and an applicable cash/production etc bonus, and being able to slot population, for periods housing is limited so it's inefficient to slot food, is a good option to have. The danger, I feel, in making specialists more potent than "supplementary" is that it would lend to making "tall" too powerful.

 

[dturtle1]

^ I wouldnt worry about that , "Tall" still has a fair way to go in Civ6 in order to feel powerful .
Also a tile with 4 combined Food/Cogs is still > than a specialist... even when Housing capped

 

[MyOtherName]

^ I wouldnt worry about that , "Tall" still has a fair way to go in Civ6 in order to feel powerful .
Also a tile with 4 combined Food/Cogs is still > than a specialist... even when Housing capped

A 4 food tile is way worse than a 2 cog specialist if you don't want to grow. A 2 beaker specialist might even be better than a 4 food tile when you aren't averse to growing.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

A 4 food tile is way worse than a 2 cog specialist if you don't want to grow. A 2 beaker specialist might even be better than a 4 food tile when you aren't averse to growing.

The real alternative, however, is likely a tile that grants production. Any hill, woods, rainforest, or resource tile is going to be better.

I think if they buffed specialists to a) give great person points and b) be slightly stronger in the late game (maybe with some policy cards increasing their yield), that would be a more interesting game. As it is right now, there's really no decisions to be made with regard to specialists--working them is the wrong decision like 97% of the time.

 

[MyOtherName]

The real alternative, however, is likely a tile that grants production. Any hill, woods, rainforest, or resource tile is going to be better.

Sure, but you don't always have those. Some cities just have a few decent production tiles before you're left with pure food tiles, or questioning the wisdom of working tiles with N food and just one production.

(or, as I said, don't want to grow -- e.g. because you want to spend your amenities on smaller cities that can grow more cheaply and have better tiles)

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Sure, but you don't always have those. Some cities just have a few decent production tiles before you're left with pure food tiles, or questioning the wisdom of working tiles with N food and just one production.

(or, as I said, don't want to grow -- e.g. because you want to spend your amenities on smaller cities that can grow more cheaply and have better tiles)

Fair enough. In the majority of instances, though, you'll either want to grow the city, and/or it will have a decent amount of good tiles. So that leaves a rather niche role for specialists in this game.

 

[HumanMap]

I didn't even know there were specialists in the game until recently lol

 

[comatosedragon]

I didn't even know there were specialists in the game until recently lol

I have been playing since launch day and never knew it either. Are they still in the game?

 

[Victoria]

This thread repeats every few months, often in tips and tricks and gets all sorts of strange answer, especially along the lines of them being useless.

I have a city and it has a campus with +2 adjacency and a library with +2 science and 3 envoys at 1 CS for 2 science. Together this makes 6 science. So putting one worker in the library adds 25% (ignoring population). The same goes for theaters, culture is quite valuable.

Now it depends on your view of the game because it does cause some micro and does slow city growth but that is also the idea. There is little reason really to grow your city over 10 pop apart from for fun, in fact there are some punishments now if your city is over 10 pop. Rationalism and Grand Opera cards work on 10 pop. Sit your city at 10 pop and to stop it growing further and boost your science/culture put workers in them. I played a game where I got 10 cities to 30 pop a month ago (save available) and it is OK and fun but there is no reason to do it. yes the 20 extra pop gives you +10 science but it does come at a cost.

This does not seem like a lot but remember in V you have 4 cities and here you have 14. A slot for a uni and a slot for a lab and you are talking +84 science, nearing +100 in an ecstatic civ.

That is at 10 pop but not all cities will make 10, indeed sometimes you settle cities that will not even make 6. Build a campus and the buildings and slot in workers so it grows no more (it may only be 1) but they all count.

As for other ones, well generally they are not worth it but I have slotted citizens in all my commercial hubs and harbours to get as much cash as possible over a few turns. Once again +50-100 gold is OK. if its the GPP you want then running projects is what you do. So there are times they can be useful... for example a grassland city or any high food city will benefit from workers working in a workshop and factory. You can get other buildings that increase production too, an encampment is not shoddy nor is a shipyard or an airport... but you need the prod to build them forst and slotting a production worker in a grass city may be the way.

In general because of the micro even those that know the true value rarely do it. But the ones that get the fastest wins do it all the time, notably science and culture.

Heres an old graphical breakdown, not including labs, specialists are not a small proportion. It's a bit out of date but for the use of the point put across here it's fine. Ignore specialists and you are missing a fair chunk of science and culture