Artificial Luxuries

[Yuri2356]

This Idea just hit me a few minutes ago while I was eating a waffle (mmm... Waffle..):
All of the luxuries that are in Civ so far are all natural products, every one of them could be found just lying arround on the terrain. And then I started thinking about the "Dynamic tech tree" Idea where each Civ will take different paths and specialize in various areas, and how the Japaneese could become specialists in making computers when it hit me: There should be advanced luxuries that Civs can Manufacture during different Ages! For example, after the discovery of computers you could gain acces to the small wonder: "Computer Factory*" once comlpete, it would act as annother luxury and add to your haapiness.

The other vector of this Idea would be with a revised Luxury System, where each tile of luxury can only supply a certain # of cities (maby 4 or 5) In that way, you could just set a City to produce "Electronic Goods" that would act as a normal luxury for a certain # of turns (After which they wear down or become obsolete) Other eras and technologies could allow for other artificial Luxuries, I don't have any Ideas for those right now but I'll get back to them. This would realy help out any Civ that starts with no Luxuries and has trouble making deals with other Civs (I.e. Always at war)


*needs a better name.

 

[El Loco]

How about a civ producing drugs? (not kidding). For example you could give speed to some of your citizens making them work faster or produce more shields but the downside would be they would starve after 20 turns or something

 

[Yuri2356]

There could be other addictive luxuries to. They would give a lot of happienes when present, but would cause an equal amount of unhappienes if the supply is cut off. You could use espionage to smuggle them into enemy Civs, and the cut off your shipments to incite rioting.

 

[Elgalad]

Wow, you're onto something here, Yuri. This sounds a little like the system in GalCiv. One thing I hate is getting to the middle ages only to realize that the island I'm on has NO resources, luxury or strategic. This might help keep me from hitting Ctl-Shft-Q !

-Elgalad

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, how about an even MORE radical proposal. Cities above a certain population actually REQUIRE access to a luxury resource simply to maintain its current happiness level. When combined with a 1 resource per X cities model, it will mean that the game can accomodate many more luxuries without having 'luxury overload' (i.e., a point where every civ in the game has over half a dozen more luxuries than he/she needs to achive perfect happiness!!)
Another possibility could be luxuries which increase happiness, but which might decrease wealth and or production-either directly, or as a result of corruption and crime. Another related possibility is that too MANY or too MUCH of luxuries can lead to corruption and crime-which could lead to a gradual decline in your civ (think Late Roman Empire and its decadent lifestyle).
Lastly, it should be possible to make certain resources, especially luxuries, illegal. The upside is that you can use this as a precursor to denying an enemy a market for his/her resources. The downside is that a nation with this resource can try smuggling the resource into your empire as 'contraband'. This will grant you access to the resource, but with the downside of increased crime/corruption!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Yuri2356]

With all these Ideas floating arround, maby we should add Columbia as a civ...


But luxury production, limiting, and smuggling are all definate yes . By banning resources you caould form a sort of mini-embargo against people, It would be perfect! So many possibilities, so little time....

Columbia offers: -- Columbia Demands:
"Icing Shugar" ---- 50 Gold Per Gram

Sure man, hook me up!
You expect me to pay that? You're crazy man!
No way, I don't use that stuff.
*Kick him in the groin and steal the goods* <---- *click*

 

[Elgalad]

With all these Ideas floating arround, maby we should add Columbia as a civ...

How dare you make light of my addictions!

Must have java.. must have java..


-Elgalad

 

[Yuri2356]

That's right, dance my puppet, DANCE!!!

 

[citizen001]

you could also use this system for strategic resources where when you acquire certain resources, you could use these to make artificial resources like alloys of metal etc tec.

 

[Yuri2356]

Like merging Iron and coal into Steal!!!
*ding*
We have a winner!
This is some of the stuff I'm trying to get at with this. Not all resorces that have been used by Humans have just been found lying arround in natural deposits accross the Earth. Allowing people to ceate different alloys and products and what not would add so much depth to comerce and Unit design. Especially if some Civs gain "unique goods" that only they could produce. Right now all I can come up with would be things like Far East Nations producing Tea, or native Americans making a few fine Cigars. Combine this with my other Idea about Colonies, and you can introduce mercantilism! You could re-create mighty global powers like the British Empire!

 

[MeatWad]

Another possibility could be luxuries which increase happiness, but which might decrease wealth and or production-either directly, or as a result of corruption and crime. Another related possibility is that too MANY or too MUCH of luxuries can lead to corruption and crime-which could lead to a gradual decline in your civ (think Late Roman Empire and its decadent lifestyle).
Lastly, it should be possible to make certain resources, especially luxuries, illegal. The upside is that you can use this as a precursor to denying an enemy a market for his/her resources. The downside is that a nation with this resource can try smuggling the resource into your empire as 'contraband'. This will grant you access to the resource, but with the downside of increased crime/corruption!

I think this is a great idea. I've wanted to address how all the advances in the game are, well, advantageous
and have no detrimental effects, except for fascism. I think it's perfectly logical to assume there is an upside and downside for everything, and if that can't be represented in the tech tree, then this is the next best (even better, I think) thing. I live in New Orleans. You want to talk about decadence, crime, and corruption from too many luxuries, sheesh. Don't even get me started on the contraband (no, really - I'm trying to quit ) I also love the idea of manufactured goods. It would lend a much needed breath of fresh air to the rather limited economic/trade model presented in the game. And just think of the increased need for diplomacy! It would help take away some of the build and bash plagueing Civ. It's not supposed to be just a war game, but ends up that way probably 99% of the time. Military action is supported by most of the advancements producing new units, and not much else. I'd like to see more attention paid to other details like diplomacy, trade, and social issues.

 

[Elgalad]

Mild tangent, please bear with me.

So anyway, the DYP mod (and C3C for that matter) do have secondary uses for some luxury resources. An example is how ivory is required to build the temple of Zeus. So let's expand on that.. aside from the happiness value, what else can and should luxuries provide? DYP requires incense for most religious buildings and gold for economic buildings marketplace and higher (bank, stock market). That's a good start. How about rubber? What if we have an upgraded coliseum for industrial age on, require rubber to represent the change from gladiatorial combat to sports arenas (that's a strategic resource I guess, but even so.)
Any other ideas for multi-use resources?

-Elgalad

 

[Khan Quest]

This has been discussed before and the responce was - It is already there, that's what the luxury slider is for.

 

[Yuri2356]

But this is something completley different. You can't sell what your get from the luxury slider, and using it cuts into science and income. By being able to produce your own luxuries you would gain a whole new way to become an economic power! You could easily become a supplier of fine goods to other nations, gaining much in the way of reputation and diplomatic favor. And besides, don't you wish you had something to do with that big industrial City after it has everything, and there's no wars to fight? You could have that little sheild-machine start cranking out your own luxuries. This could even be a way to give purpose to all those spare luxuries that no one wants to buy. You could take a few raw lux, and merge them into new products. Civ needs to add this kind of depth to the economic portion oof the game, there needs to be more to it than just war after, war after, war after, war after, war after, war after, war after.....

 

[MeatWad]

I guess you could say we suffer from 'war weariness'. Please Devs, give us more social/diplomatic/economic reasons to play CIV!!!! I can play any one of a number of 'wargames', if all I wanted to do was squash some pixels....

 

[dh_epic]

I definitely like the idea of refining resources into luxuries. Wood into wood products, for example, instead of raw lumber. The difference between trading your wood to another nation, and trading wood products like furniture to another nation -- it says a lot about where your nation ranks in the grand scheme of things.

Plus there's strategies involved in keeping a nation down as a resource provider while you benefit from a huge markup due to skilled craftsmanship. The last thing you'd want them to do is to start developing a competitive furniture industry, if that was your specialty.

 

[MeatWad]

So how do we tackle outsourcing in CivIV? Hmmm, cheap foreign labor, only available after 'Capitalism' advance, requires 'Sweatshop'......New Diplomacy option - build Factory in opponent city (like an Embassy), get 90% of the production giving the host nation nil, only available if culture gap is 3 to 1 or more. Sometimes things are too real.....

 

[Yuri2356]

Communist countries could be immune to sweatshops, and would instantly hate any nation that builds one...
and a nation with enough sweatshops have a chance of revolution after developing Communism...
I like where this is going!

 

[MeatWad]

I meant the above as a joke, kinda. Capitalism should definitely be an advance. It has been suggested that there be seperate or more specialized tech trees, i.e. Cultural, Scientific, Military, and Economic. I could see Stock Exchange requiring 'Capitalism'. A broader economic model definitely wouldn't hurt...

 

[Yuri2356]

And I'm joking too. Respond to one joke with annother, why do so few people get that?