bad fire elementals! no soup for you!

[smjjames]

yea, as it turns out, Brigit isn't all that powerful anyway. Unless I'm not using the right promotions.

@pyro: She only spawns once, so sacrificing her is going to be a permanent death for Brigit. Besides, the ring of carcer only appears in snow tiles and the pyre has a tendency to appear in the tropics.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

@pyro: She only spawns once, so sacrificing her is going to be a permanent death for Brigit. Besides, the ring of carcer only appears in snow tiles and the pyre has a tendency to appear in the tropics.

I think he was talking about my proposal to possibly place another Brigit(_held) in the Ring of Carcer if Brigit is sacrificed. The thought was that if Bhall spared her once she might do so again.

 

[smjjames]

oh I see, but yea you have a point there, the two could be on different continents.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

True, I suppose it would be rather rare for both features to be present. Still, distance isn't much of a barrier. The level 15 unit could simply stay in the circle, only moving out and back to recapture Brigit, and Brigit's immortality can be exploited to get around distance issues easily.

As for Brigit not being all that powerful, keep in mind that she's an Immortal. I usually go Mobility, Combat I, Shock, Combat II-III, March, Combat IV-V, Commando. It's easy leveling her since she can't die, and March lets her heal on the run back to the battle from your capital.

My current game as Malakim (Varn Gosam), I managed to get a level 15 Swordsman by turn 250ish of an epic game. A combination of a lucky low-% orthus kill (something like 50 xp ), Charismatic, Great Commander, and several early wars with neighbors in which I basically farmed them for XP, led to my releasing Brigit while everyone was still using axemen, archers, and hunters at best. Having an Immortal before anyone even has champions is absolutely devastating.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Level FIFTEEN?! I am an experienced Civ4 player, and I've never, ever even got the level 12 required for a vampire lord. Fifteen?! How many XP is that?

More importantly though, the chances of losing at least one 99.5% battle if you have to do it that many times, is pretty high. I thought you would use an immortal to try to reach the level 15. The reward though is really powerful. Brigit is a very badass unit. She is, after all, the archangel of an entire 'aspect' in Erebus, equal in rank to the Avatar of Wrath or Sabethiel himself.

 

[smjjames]

if you use the feed ability that vampires have, you'll reach 12 easily, and beyond. Heck, I got to level 26 with a vampiric Rosier.

Sounds like you've been seriously neglecting a key ability that the Calabim have.

 

[uberfish]

Alazkan is another good hero for training up, or Grigori adventurers with trait switch to Charismatic.

Of course by the time you've killed enough enemy units to get to level 15, you are probably winning the game without Brigit anyway, at least this has been my experience with her.

 

[Verily]

Yeah, I agree. I feel like Brigit should be available a bit earlier, maybe with a Lvl 12 unit instead of 15. It just has to be somewhere significantly past the 100 XP Heroes get for free.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Once you have Combat V/Shock II, it's very rare that you'll lose the unit if you're reasonably careful. Also, Valor + GC = minimum 3xp per battle, and level 15 is I believe 197 xp. Charismatic probably lowers that to around 180 xp. If I've got my math right, level 12 is only 122 xp, which is FAR too low for getting a unit as powerful as Brigit is. Again, she's an immortal that you can get far in advance of the tech requirement.

As for which units usually make it to level 15, if I'm not specifically going for a level 15 unit (like I was in my Malakim game since I spotted the Ring early):
Valin Phanuel/Rosier the Fallen - Quiet easy. With Mobility II and Commando they can easily and safely pick off enemies from very far away, and high withdrawal means you can risk them on lower-% battles. Blitz helps too.
Alazkan - Very very easy. HN = free XP-farming.
Vampires - Usually don't bother feeding them that high unless they're archmages, but very easily possible.
Adventurers - Easy if you want to do it, since you can start very early.
Immortals - Easy, but come extremely late-game. Just keep throwing them at the nearest enemy
Occasionally I'll have a Flanking III horseman/chariot that lasts until level 15, but it's not that common.

One way to get high-level units is to go hero-hunting. Remember, world units are worth 4 times the XP, so a single kill at low odds can be worth a ton of XP.

Finally, as for the game being over by the time you get a level 15 unit, it depends entirely on what unit you're training up. Immortals, Vampires, and Alazkan are all reasonably late-game, so yes chances are you've already won. Lucky warriors/axemen can come very early, as in my case. Rosier and Valin are fairly early too.

 

[Caseus]

Alazkan - Very very easy. HN = free XP-farming.

Yeah, getting Alkazan to level 15 is a cakewalk. He is easily my favourite hero on FFH...and that was before I really started abusing the mirror button.

 

[Kolath]

Back on topic... something really needs to be done about the Sepharic Pyre. It is waaay too overpowered for when it usually gets pillaged. In the last 3 multiplayer games I've played all had the Pyre and in all the AIs or the barbarians pillaged the Pyre before turn 50 (quick speed). There is simply nothing you can do at turn 50 vs six 10 fire elementals! In each case the elementals went on a rampage and destroyed multiple civilizations. In our most recent game, we went back a few turns and one guy put a stack of 5 warriors on the Pyre just to prevent any AIs from pillaging it.

The feature is really like a giant time bomb. I think either it should have the effect reduced (Maybe 3x 5 elementals with duration 3 turns) or else it should be un-pillagable unless you have the quest.