Barbarian behaviors... Also some UN facts...

[KAuss]

Well, I got frustrated playing a huge map on epic each time I start I have to deal with about 40 straight turns of barbarian rush...

It starts out with warriors, then archers, and ultimately axemen... The first wave usually comes by around 400BC... This usually grants me three cities with about three archers each stationed in them... On my way to fourth city...

The problem starts when they would just come two by two, or three by three... They don't attack they just raze the improvements... So there is really no choice but to go on the offense... Needless to say this takes me way out of any early game...

So what I did, was got myself into world builder and studied how the barbarians react... I filled the map up with a TON of barbarian warriors... I put some next to an AI town just for kicks... Stationed a unit there as look out...

The result was, they first killed off my guy, then took the AI city... Then after another 10 turns or so, they gathered up and just congregated around my base... EVERY SINGLE UNIT I PUT OUT!!! I had me a few modern armors in the city for this test... So evidently, it was a wave for about a billion turns where the units I put out just went for nothing but me...

I also had another stationed unit in another part of the map next to another AI base... The barbarians NEVER went after them... I do see barbarians and animals attack the computer, but thats like 10% of the time... They usually hit me first... I even did a test where I was stacked with a nuetral scout... When the lion attacked, it used my scout to defend...

The barbarians act a little more sane on a different island... They'll head for the AI like they hated them... That only happens I think because they can't get to you...

I also did a test where I walled off a stack of about 50 barbarians with modern armors... Left them 2 square away from an AI city... The 50 warriors rather attack my modern armors than to take the city... All of them died except 1 which then died two turns later fighting another unit down the line...

I think barbarians have a set target for the player most of the time... It only gets worst with bigger maps... As they appear, during a set time frame, they are all set to target YOU!!! So the bigger the map, the more units... The more units, the longer the initial wave... This usually takes me WAY out of the early game building too many units... Totally freezes the growth too... Epic build times are horrible for wars...

Anywho, another thing about the UN... The votes are generated by population... I had one city with 11 pop, and only got 11 votes... Then I got another vote when it went to 12... So for those that don't know, it's by population... The top two that gets the voting is the top population owners if no civ own the UN building... I tested this by giving the UN building to a barbarian city... UN voting stayed even after you razed the city UN was in...

Yeah, I was bored hah...

 

[Taronas]

Yea, those Barbarians

I tried a few games on Noble, huge Terra map, and always get overrun by barbarians in the early game. They destroy improvements faster than my workers build them And while trying to defend my land against them I get way behind the other civs. And those other civs never seem to get hit by those pesky barbs ...


Now, another game on Warlord, huge Terra map, I got a bit more lucky with my start position. but also I got way less barbarian attacks in this early stage of the game. I'm now way ahead of all other civs in that game.

It really feels like the barbarians on Noble are going only after the player. And that's only the fourth out of ten difficulty levels - how would anybody survive those harder levels I wonder.

 

[Dairuka]

- Turn Barbarians Off.

- Don't play the levels that're more difficult.

- Don't play Pangea, this way you get more chokepoints to hold off Barbarians.

- Play a smaller sized map so there are less places for Barbarians to spawn.

- Put more AI's into the map; so that there are less places for Barbarians to spawn.

- Play Standard Speed. Epic slows down your production; but it does not slow down the rate in which Barbarians are spawn. At least in my experiences it hasn't.

 

[Gufnork]

Actually epic does slow down the barbarian spawn rates by the same amount it slows down your production. Just check the XML file.

Barbarians almost always attack any unit that is next to it, the only exception is when they feel like pillaging. They don't care about odds. They move about randomly most of the time, but sometimes they get an urge to plunder and head straight for a city. Sometimes yours, sometimes the AIs.

If you find a barbarian city nearby, place a unit on a forested hill or similar next to the city and give it good defensive upgrades. Any units the town wants to go plundering with will just attack that unit. That way it won't go around pillaging or gather large forces.

 

[WetWarev7]

I just don't find the Barbarians difficult to deal with in Civ4. Maybe I've gotten better, maybe I just don't have the "Shoot me now" option checked?

Knowing that barbs allways attack a unit next to them, I allways plan accordingly when I encounter them. When first noticeing them, I look at the terrain, move accordingly(hopefully in their path, and on a hill or in a forest), and hunker down till they attack.

 

[KAuss]

Barbarians almost always attack any unit that is next to it, the only exception is when they feel like pillaging. They don't care about odds. They move about randomly most of the time, but sometimes they get an urge to plunder and head straight for a city. Sometimes yours, sometimes the AIs.

Go world builder and put about 50 modern armors like at the farthest part of the map...

I'll bet you around 400 AD all 50 modern armors will head straight for your base like they know where it was and you'll be ran over before the AI's get ran...

I'm telling you, I spawned a city for the AI next to mine, and they by passed that one even though it was unprotected to hit me 90% of the time... My base was filled with like 5 modern amors...

The test I conducted shows the barbarians will collect up around 400 AD and just head towards your base... They first start to appear arond the 1600 BC... They look like they're doing recon when you first see them moving in and out of your view range, but once 400 AD starts up on epic, they'll head for your base like there was no tomorrow...

They ONLY time they head for the AI is when they can't reach you... The AI's improvements weren't even touched by the barbs... Where I had one mine setup, and they were hunting that thing down like it was the most important improvement ever made...

 

[KAuss]

- Turn Barbarians Off.

- Don't play the levels that're more difficult.

- Don't play Pangea, this way you get more chokepoints to hold off Barbarians.

- Play a smaller sized map so there are less places for Barbarians to spawn.

- Put more AI's into the map; so that there are less places for Barbarians to spawn.

- Play Standard Speed. Epic slows down your production; but it does not slow down the rate in which Barbarians are spawn. At least in my experiences it hasn't.

Or I can play a small map 1v1 but thats no fun =P

I know there is a way around it, but on epic it's kinda hard since you don't even have iron hooked up before the axemen shows up... You sometimes can get horse archers, but if you don't, then you're screwed... However their axemen are set on city attack rather than raid, so archers are still good enough to hold them off if you don't go hunting the raiders...

 

[Ghraabthar]

I too was also frustrated with the barbarians until I learned how to prevent/control them. First of all you have to realize is that barbarians come out of areas without cultural borders, and more importantly for you they will only spawn in places without any line of sight, or fog essentially. The most obvious way to prevent the barbarians from spawning in the first place is to expand quickly. The second option, which is something I've never had to do in any previous Civs, is to have border garrisons. Basically, what you do is position a unit outside of your cultural borders to basically keep your area "lit up" as much as possible. Any dark areas around your borders or fog is a potential breeding ground for barbarians. For me what this means is that after I've made first contact with most of my neighbors with my initial "explorer" warrior I pull him back to guard my border. Also any other warriors I've built I put to watch my borders, usually positioning them in forest/jungles for the defensive bonus. Also, its important NOT to focus solely on building non-combat units in the early game, as once I have archery I will alternate every worker/settler with an archer in my capital. These units will allow you to guard future city locations while at the same time minimizing the amount of area that barbarians can arise from. At the same time I expand outward, I'm also trying to extend my net of border garrison so that I can have as much map unfogged. Also another added benefit is that you give the barbarians something to attack thats away from your cities and improvements.

Playing on prince and monarch this has worked well, the barbarians don't progress past warriors for the most part, and a few times they've put up cities. Also, since the AI is able to build so fast, their expansion (invariably towards your own borders) helps to keep the barbarians under control. Typically the AI's border will reach your border garrisons, and by then the barbarians shouldn't be much of a problem at all.

 

[elderotter]

Iam playing easier lvls and the Barbarians are an equal pest to myself and the Ai's. I am in a game of Islands and there were 3 islands left without civs(setup for extra islands). Each stray island got its own Barbarian city. I conquered the one nearest me - reaped the benefit of a good infrastructure already built - incl horses which I didnt have. Tehn in 1838 I noticed that the Greek city of Ephesus had been taken a "the barbarian state"...this disturbed me - so I went and investigated. The city was Phoenician pop 10 and had 4 longbow archers defending it. I sent an invasion force and took it.
Then I found Ephesus pop2. It was situated right next to an uraniumresource.
I thought about 3 seconds about what that might entail and took the city.
There is still 1 more babrbaian city out there. There are 2 Civ cities on the same island. I don't trust them to deal well with the barbarians, and do not want to see an Island with 3 barbarian cities eating up the resources...not really sure how far the Barbs can advance with resources available. So as we speak I am preparing an invasion force - will probably just raze this city as I am getting spread out too far.
I love the Barbarians, since I play a peace-loving peoples kinda game(am playing Asoka), and they do provide excitement.
Station warriors on nearby hills to "attract" the barbs - I notice this acts like a provocation to them. Send out team of 3 varied units to barb hunt...as they move about they do disrupt spawning areas. I use 3 more will be better at higher lvls. Idea is to protect a wounded unit while it heals. Keep Barbarians on and adjust, adapt, and overcome them

 

[Shillen]

Knowing that barbs allways attack a unit next to them, I allways plan accordingly when I encounter them. When first noticeing them, I look at the terrain, move accordingly(hopefully in their path, and on a hill or in a forest), and hunker down till they attack.

That's how you have to do it. You can't just hide your units in your cities and wait for the barbarian to attack or he's going to pillage your improvements and go for your worker. You need to move next to the barb in a forest tile. That gives you like a 80% or greater chance of winning even if it's warrior vs warrior. Also, never attack the barb straight out. You need to rely on defensive bonuses or you will lose a lot of units.

As for higher difficulties. I played a monarch game last night and in 1500BC there were 3 barbarian archers coming at my capital. Thankfully I had skirmishers, but that was still insane. I can't imagine what immortal or deity are like. Oh and I had raging barbs turned off too. I've still yet to try that setting.

One great thing about civ4 barbs over civ3 barbs is there are no 2 movement ones. So they won't come out of the fog and kill your worker before you even see him.

 

[UberCivver]

Yah, getting a border garrison out there is key. Read my strategy on city planning for some info:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136560

-UberCivver

 

[Vizzini]

Yhow would anybody survive those harder levels I wonder.

I usually play with Raging Barbarians. I consider it free XP for my early units.

That said, I would never play with Raging Barbs on a Pangea, or even a Continents map. I prefer Archipelago, which makes it rather manageable.

Remember: The key to Barbarians is the Fog of War. If there is no fog there's nowhere for a Barbarian to spawn at - so get your units out exploring, station them on hilltops, and once your island is free of fog-shrouded tiles you've ended the threat they pose.

 

[KAuss]

For everyone not getting the game settings, it's Huge map on epic speed... Land type is Terra...

You can't prevent fog of war... Like I've stated, every barb that has spawned from the beginning of the game to 400 BC will collect up and head towards your base... They don't just spawn a sqaure or two away from your border now do they? Cause if they do, then the AI gets it TOO easy...

Come to think of it, when I patrol the AI's borders, I NEVER run into barbs... *thinking*

 

[Dairuka]

I personally do not see why you people see Barbarians as a threat.

Free XP for promotions - Free poorly defended cities. {3 archers with no cultural bonus? THANK YOU BUDDHA/VISHNU/JEBUS!}

By the time you get yourself settled in, you'll have around 6-7 horse archers with 10+ XP if you built them from a city with Barracks, not to mention 2-3 extra cities + a huge boost in gold per city taken. I also like how on Monarch and higher difficulties, the Cities have 2-4 workers in them who have already worked the tiles.

God I love Barbarians. =D

 

[Taronas]

I guess sometimes it's just good or bad luck

Startet a new game yesterday, Noble on a huge Continental Map. Starting position seemed ok, not perfekt. Set R&D to get Archers and then Iron as fast as possible. Meanwhile grow and build a second city a bit away next to a marble spot. Still only animals around. Next to build some archers once available. Send them out to 75% tiles on my borders, just in time to defeat some incoming barbarian Archers! Well done so far.

Then comes Iron and it comes right in front of my capitals doorstep, on a hill already with a mine - perfect I build some stronger units and set them on route towards those dark bordered spots my scouts had revealed on the map.

With some luck (saved and reloaded once) I managed to take over three barbarian settlements over the next few rounds!

Horray, that seemed to be the end of the barbarians on this continent, no one got ever seen since then.

Now my empire spawns the southern part of a continent shaped like Afrika. Three other civs live with me on that continent. They were my best friends until I founded Islam and converted. Now they need a little present from time to time to remain happy.

But then I made contact with Victoria. She seems to live on her own continent (how true, hehe) and develops and grows undisturbed and is now - Industrial aera just begun - about 400 points ahead of me and builds one wonder after the other. Although my people live in the most advanced Culture on earth I seem to be way behind in Power and Advancement. Curious how this will turn out in the end ...

 

[NKVD]

seeing that i'll turn off barbarians next time...its all about equity...if they just chase me its stupid.!

 

[Wlauzon]

Knowing that barbs allways attack a unit next to them, I allways plan accordingly when I encounter them. When first noticeing them, I look at the terrain, move accordingly(hopefully in their path, and on a hill or in a forest), and hunker down till they attack.

Pretty much what I do.

If you park a couple of archers on a forested hill (+75% defense) along the paths that barbs take, they will quite often expend all their units, time after time, on just those.

And you get a lot of free promotions for the archers.

 

[Gufnork]

One thing I've noticed is that barbarians doesn't seem to become more of a problem on higher difficulties. Probably because they effect the AI as much as it effects you.

KAuss, I think the problem lies with the world editor in that case. I always follow barbarian movement and try to avoid conflict with them if possible. Many, many times they head for another civs city.

 

[anton_z1]

I love Barbarians. Use them to promote my units to level 3 city raider and then guess what .