Basium rush

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Okay, after finding a fast solution for a Hyborem rush I was finally able to also perfect the Basium rush. For comparison I used the same setting like the Hyborem rush: Monarch, with aggressive AI and quicktech setting.
My first try was using two greater prophets to light bulb Priesthood and Fanatism similar to the Hyborem rush with Corruption of Spirit and Infernal pact. Unfortunately this attempt completely failed because you can't light bulb Fanatism before Religious Law was researched. Therefore I tried to change the strategy to a great sage for an academy and after that using sage + priest for a fast second great person of either GS or GP. However, their impact is not as big as it should. Letting a GS join the city is nice, but not really earth shaking. An academy for the second city is nice for Basium, but not really helpfull for the rush itself since the second city comes very late. GP is also nice for an altar or an order shrine, but also not really that helpfull for the rush itself. The perfect race for the rush seemed pretty obvious at first when looking at the Kuriotates: Philosophical for greater persons, expansive for the second city, extra happy for giant metropolis and finally adaptive philosophical trait for a change to industrial for faster mercurian gates production. It looks like they were born to summon Basium. And they are indeed quite good and I managed a rush in ~105 turns. During the building time of the gates I also researched order to give Hyborem a holy city and a good fundament for getting angels.

Well, 105 turns is nice, but compared to the 75 turns of the Hyborem rush it's actually pretty bad. The main problem is the high production time for the mercurian gates. Even with industrious trait it usually takes more than 20 turns to finish them. The Kuriotates are quite good for the Basium rush, but they are not the best. The main problem is 'building' something, and who do we call if something has to be built?!? Of course, call for the dwarves!!!


The true masters of the Basium rush are the Luchiurp with Beeri Bawl as leader:
They can do it reliable in about 85 turns. The Luchiurp have enchantment mana for +1 happy and Beeri Bawl is financial which ensures a good gold income for research and industrious... for not what you think .
The strategy is tricky but also very reliable. It really took me some time to figure it out.
Focus with the Luchiurp on growth (flood plains, grassland) and gold (dye or similar plantation resources). We have to research education anyway, so cottages are available and we're not completely dependent on special resources. Starting place should (always) be hills/plains for the extra hammer. If you have a gold mine just place your city on it. You have to grow very fast and a gold mine doesn't give any food. This way you get hills, two hammers, and 3 - 4 gold with 2 food right from the start. There are more important researches than mining:
Go for agrarism and calender first. You need the farms and plantations very fast. Since the mud golems are so expensive that I'd suggest a name change to gold golem, just build one warrior so you have two with you starting unit. Then start a mud golem. At least they don't stop the city growth. Give priority to growth and a bit of production to get the mud golem fast. Then go ancient chants and mysticism. Build an additional 4 - 5 warriors after the mud golem until mysticism is finished. You might need them to deal with barbarians or scare of aggressive opponents.
As soon as mysticism is finished immediately change to god king, pacifism and agrarism and then build an elder council very fast. Next tech should be philosophy, followed by masonry. Employ a sage after the elder council is finished. The great sage takes a while since the dwarves are not philosophical. This gives you some time to build a settler for the second city. Make sure the city has reached its max size before that. The settler should be finished a few rounds before the great sage is finished.
When you get the great sage build an academy (this is obvious).
You should have researched masonry by now and therfore you should be able to trigger the world spell to get a dwarven hammer. Make sure that you have your second city by then so it also gets a hammer (It's not a must but we want a good city for Basium.). Use the hammer to create an engineer in both cities and then start the Bone Temle in you capital (This is not so obvious). The great person growth rate of one engineer is not really impressive if you are not philosophical and you've already built a great sage. 50+ rounds is a very long time. However, it also gives you time to build the bone temple which grants you +2 great engineer growth + it starts a golden age when finished which boost you GE growth rate to an impressive +12 per turn for 10 rounds. You should now be able to finish a GE right in time when you've finished research Code of Laws, Priesthood and Fanatism. You should also research roads before that to connect your cities and allow the GE a fast traveling to the second city later. Mining is also fast to research at that time.
In my game the GE was finished in round 83, fanatism in round 84 and then the mercurian gates in round 85. You don't have order yet, but at this early time it isn't really needed, and it also shouldn't be a problem for Basium to research it himself.

 

[Onionsoilder]

I find this interesting... I recently fell victim to a Hyborem Rush, not from Hyborem himself, but from the Horsemen when he sent the AC counter skyrocketing. I don't have CivIV atm, but I'm assuming Angels are immune to fear(and Not Alive?) Makes them much more powerful against the horsemen...

Would you suggest staying as Luchiurp, or switch to Basium(They are the same team after all). Also, if time permits, founding RoK(for monies and angels)?

EDIT: Can the Gate be built if Hyborem hasn't entered the world yet? It would suck if you put all this effort into it and your opponent never actually summons Hyborem.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Would you suggest staying as Luchiurp, or switch to Basium(They are the same team after all). Also, if time permits, founding RoK(for monies and angels)?

Both of my rush strategies for Hyborem and Basium are intended for switching, since I sacrifice part of their growth and power potential to get the mercurians or infernals fast.
The infernals and the mercurians are very powerfull civs. Both start with iron and a very powerfull hero, especially for that time. The infernals can also build or take over cities that start with several buildings. Both can get troops from dead units of certain religions. Further, both are summoned with a bunch of elite troops like champions/angels and a settler. Usually, I immediately start war as soon as they're summoned.
The AI is not reliable in how good it plays the Mercurians. If I'd summon Basium as an ally, it would be just a side bonus to another main strategy.
I also prefer order as religion for them. You get 2 powerfull heroes, paladins and sometimes a free crusader when you conquer a city. It also fits better...

EDIT: Can the Gate be built if Hyborem hasn't entered the world yet? It would suck if you put all this effort into it and your opponent never actually summons Hyborem.

Well, the Basium rush wouldn't work so well if Hyborem had to be summoned before. So far I didn't see an AI summoning Hyborem in the first 85 rounds. THAT would be a real surprise .

 

[Onionsoilder]

Alright, well I just attempted it myself. Settings: Small Pangaea Epic Emperor. I managed to complete the gate and summon him on turn 220(This was Epic speed, so that's around turn 98 on Quick) Could use some work, but it's not bad. Some key differences:
1) I ended up making a deviance and getting Mining. The lack on mines for production, combined with the inability to chop forests, kept eating at me. Halfway through Mysticism, I made the switch to grab it.
2) My first build was actually a Mud Golem. Because of this, I was able to start building farms sooner. After my cities maxed out in population, I build cottages over the farms instead. I also had a few happiness resources(Cotton, Wine) that were not connected to my capital. I'm thinking if I do this again I will get Exploration to nab them, because that's an extra 2 population working cottages.
3) I switched to Agarianism immediately after getting Calender(Second Tech). The extra food seed worth it. I went for God King+Pacifism Right after Mysticism.
4) I had three cities build my the time I used Gifts for the hammers. From your guide it seems like you only had two. With all those agarian farms, it shouldn't be hard to build another settler(or two) for more benefit from Gifts. Why didn't you?

EDIT: By the way, Order does not fit Basium thematically. Order is about upholding a strict set of rules, with severe punishments for any who break them, be they peasants to kings. Basium broke the most important rule in existence(The Compact) and broke many others in order to peruse his ultimate goal of fighting demons. Granted, RoK or Empyrean don't fit much better, though out of the three I still might say RoK fits the best(sole devotion to one's work, which is, in Basium's case, killing demons).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Mercurian Gate used to require the Infernals be in the world already, but that was removed back in Shadow since the AI didn't summon them very much. Basium hates all demons, not just those under Hyborem, so it would make sense to be able to summon him to fight against OO demons or entropy summons too.

(Would it be too much to make the Mercurians get a -1 diplomatic penalty against leaders for every demon unit the leader creates? I'm thinking I may want to give them that, probably instead of making them automatically declare war on AV civs.)

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

4) I had three cities build my the time I used Gifts for the hammers. From your guide it seems like you only had two. With all those agarian farms, it shouldn't be hard to build another settler(or two) for more benefit from Gifts. Why didn't you?

You need about 10 turns for a settler with a good food production. I had about 15 turns free while the great sage was built, after that I had to switch to the bone temple immediately. And when the bone temple is finished a third settler will be ready just a few turns before Basium is summoned. There's not much gain from a third city if you intend to switch. When Basium is summoned I need free space for his settler and space is very rare since I play a small map size. Three cities also force me to spread my warriors which decreases my defense options. I'm usually quite busy defending against barbarians. You can't do that reliable with just 2 - 3 warriors if you want to protect your tile enhancements and not just the city.
In general, I don't need to start with a lot of cities. It's much cheaper and easier to conquer them from the opponents. Just like I said, I usually go to war immediately after Basium or Hyborem is summoned.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

You can build scouts, send them to your satellite cities, have them grab the golden hammers, run them to the capital, then delete them in order to pile them into the capital for much faster GE generation. Kael has explicitly stated that this isn't an exploit, and that the only reason units can't just drop the hammers is that it's impossible to code without breaking some other functionality they have.

With this you don't need to rely on the bone palace, which is easy to lose the race to.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

You can build scouts, send them to your satellite cities, have them grab the golden hammers, run them to the capital, then delete them in order to pile them into the capital for much faster GE generation. Kael has explicitly stated that this isn't an exploit, and that the only reason units can't just drop the hammers is that it's impossible to code without breaking some other functionality they have.

With this you don't need to rely on the bone palace, which is easy to lose the race to.

Yes, that's definitely an easier way! Didn't know that this is possible. Anyway, it won't make a difference since the limiting factor is still set by the research speed. Thanks for the hint.

 

[Onionsoilder]

You can build scouts, send them to your satellite cities, have them grab the golden hammers, run them to the capital, then delete them in order to pile them into the capital for much faster GE generation. Kael has explicitly stated that this isn't an exploit, and that the only reason units can't just drop the hammers is that it's impossible to code without breaking some other functionality they have.

With this you don't need to rely on the bone palace, which is easy to lose the race to.

Won't effect much, since like Arkhan said, the limiting factor is the research. I had my Great Engineer around 20 turns before I finished Fanaticism. I suppose you could use this to get the Bone Palace, but that might leave you devoid of a GE when you need one for the Gate(keep in mind the reason you're building the palace is to get a GE faster).

I just finished my Basium game, and boy is that rush powerful. I would say it might even be stronger then the Hyborem Rush. For one thing, you start with 6 angels which have 5 each, and get free Iron Weapons to bump it up to 7 . By contrast, Hyborem starts with two champions who have 6 - they're slightly stronger, but you have more of them. In addition, when good units die you get more angels, as opposed to manes. Manes have a little more utility, but with a Hyborem rush they won't be able to upgrade into anything useful, axemen at best. Finally, you forge a permanet alliance with your old civ, so you can keep their cities' research potential and resources.

Funnily enough, that Basium game was the first one were I actually reached Armageddon, and Hyborem never entered the game. I think it was because I kept razing all the cities to get more angels.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

The bone palace also increases research and production with the golden age, so it's not that bad.

For one thing, you start with 6 angels which have 5 each, and get free Iron Weapons to bump it up to 7 .

Common angels can't use iron. I think the Hyborem starting units are stronger, especially since Hyborem is immortal, but the true strength of Basium lies in its greater angels. I once had a Mercurians game where I had an angel of death which pretty much won the game with Basium together. All other units were just decoration...

 

[Onionsoilder]

Common angels can't use iron.

Really? Then I wonder that type of metal weapons my common, regular, unupgraded angels were wielding my last game then that increased their attack and defense by 2, and gave them a bonus against bronze weapons?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes they can.

Spoiler :

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A iWeaponTier of 3 means they can use Bronze, Iron, and even Mithril Weapons.

 

[Tasunke]

aye ... angels can use iron and even MITHRIL!!!??!!!?!?! this is why you NEVER let Basium get mithril ... EVER. its insane.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Well, that's interesting to know, since it's neither mentioned in the manual, nor in the ingame unit description. That changes things of course...

 

[readercolin]

Just tried this out - its a neat little trick, though I forgot about the great sage and my starting spot was anything but stellar. On the other hand, waiting until turn 150 (normal speed), i was able to get 3 cities, put all 3 golden hammers into the city that I wanted basium to be in, then proceed to get 3 great engineers (i waited about 2 turns before building the gate so I could get the third). This gave me 1 engineer to rush the bone palace, 1 engineer to pop bronze working, and 1 engineer to pop the gate.

Overall, I would have to say that this is a very powerful strategy if you have a few good neighbors you don't like. On the other hand, having a pair of evil neighbors did nothing for my angel count, and I had to rely on basium (at strength 13 + hero... yeah... real difficult to rely on him ) to wipe them out. After that though, everything just started being a steamroll and I decided to just stop.

-Colin

 

[Tasunke]

actaully, just build tier 1 disciple units, like Acolytes or Thanes of Kilmorph, and you can get a steady supply of angels. The key with Mercurians, is that sometimes the best way to get angels is actually through your own living units. A' course that requires having a temple, the trick is to survive until you get a temple, if Hyborem is trying to curb-stomp you.

I "almost" got Basium at turn 81 on quick, but got a great sage instead ... so yea, had to build it the hard way. Ended up taking about 15 more turns, as basium was summoned at turn 96. By that time, my old civ was almost completely destroyed, by Hyborem capturing it, and killing all my former units, So I just had Basium and the starting angels. However, since Hyborem was rushing quite phenomenally, some risky tactics + worldspell saw me defeat hyborem and retake the capital. So even though Basium usually gets summoned later, he can still prove a match.

We played out that battle 3 times actually. first time I won, second time he won, third time I won. I think the reason Basium "doesn't" get immortality is due to his worldspell. In a pure Hyborem vs Basium, with humans or well played AI, the function of Hyborem's immortality is to SURVIVE Basium's worldspell, and then runaway and recover, building up another army.

 

[odalrick]

actaully, just build tier 1 disciple units, like Acolytes or Thanes of Kilmorph, and you can get a steady supply of angels. The key with Mercurians, is that sometimes the best way to get angels is actually through your own living units. A' course that requires having a temple, the trick is to survive until you get a temple, if Hyborem is trying to curb-stomp you.

If you are mercurian, you might as well go with Warriors. All mercurian living, non-animal units are eligible for angelhood. Even Beast units.

On a less interesting and important note, the basic disciple units, Acolytes et cetera, are tier two. I think Lightbringers are the only tier one disciple units left.

 

[Tasunke]

eh, in that case its actually cheaper to build tier II than tier I disciples XD

in any event, your best bet is to build mobility 1 axemen or mobility 1 missionaries imo. Anything with a low hammer cost. Mercurians can't build tier 1 anything. so no warriors. actually, axemen are probably the best option, because they can pillage improvements, AND have better chances to attack a city, vs an archer or a hunter. Yet conversely an archer might be better at pillaging.


HOWEVER ... if you can get thanes/acolytes earlier than axemen then great ... its the same hammer cost. Plus, its an AWESOME demoralizing effect for the enemy to kill these puny missionaries which grant you the angels. even if they are same hammers as an axeman.

 

[readercolin]

One, basium can't build warriors, so there goes that strategy.

Two -VERY ANNOYING. I researched order, had 3 cities by this point. And it gave it to beeri bawl, who already had grabbed RoK, and only had 2 cities. As he got order, and didn't spread it, and wouldn't give me the city, I was out order. If there was any way to curbstomp my former civ, I would have, right then and there.

-Colin

 

[Tasunke]

readercolin, yes this is very annoying. However, one way to help with this situation is to have your AI switch to a different technology the turn before you found the religion. This also works with teams of humans, the person that wants or needs the holy city is the one to "finish" the tech after you get it to a close thresh-hold. I would suggest two turns though, cause one turn on simul turns is cutting it cloooose