beelining archery

[King of Town]

I'm sure people have already been using this, but I recently took out the byzantines and their buddhist holy city with an early bowman rush. Thye only had warriors so my bowman dispatched them quickly. I'm sure it would wrk for skirmisher rushes too. No one ever talks about them, so i had to bring it up. quickest rush ever I think.

 

[ggganz]

Beelining Archery isn't that hard, because usually there's only one tech before that. But if your civ starts with Hunting, it's not even considered beelining, because it's just one tech.

 

[King of Town]

I should have realized you'd post here with something like that hahaha

Besides quechas it seems like the easiest rush no one talks about. Just wanted to put it out there.

 

[Bhruic]

That only works on Prince or lower. After that, the AI starts with Archery, and Archer vs Archer when one is in a city is pretty bad odds.

Bh

 

[gunter]

That only works on Prince or lower. After that, the AI starts with Archery, and Archer vs Archer when one is in a city is pretty bad odds.

Bh

Really ? Not fair indeed...

I would assume therefore that @ the Deity level the AI starts with....Knights ?

 

[gettingfat]

That only works on Prince or lower. After that, the AI starts with Archery, and Archer vs Archer when one is in a city is pretty bad odds.

Bh

A skirmisher rush still works sometimes. The only problem is Mansa doen't start with hunting.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

Really ? Not fair indeed...

I would assume therefore that @ the Deity level the AI starts with....Knights ?

Nope. Just several archers, 2 workers, and 2 settlers, If I'm not mistaken.

 

[jackdog]

Its only really a few more turns to hook up axemen and they stay useful for some time and the early survivors then have promotions that can be used later. Early on, after the others have archers, an archer with a promo is pretty useless. Also even on prince the AI get archers very early and it only takes one to mess up your three, and if on a hill forget it, a few axemen still stand a chance.

I gather from old threads lots of people, including myself, never bother with archery or horseback riding until its a one turn research or usually a throwaway part of a later tech deal.

Those early turns you spend doing archery for very limited usage inded are much better used else where, as the agg civ may then get axes before you and then you are in trouble. Also unless you have used world builder before to scope out and can place all the copper, revealing copper later means a civ may stuff you by settling on it before you do, again big trouble...

just some reasons the archer rush isn't talked about...

 

[ggganz]

I think archers are great. I don't see why nobody thinks Archery is really useful. Maybe not really useful until you have Feudalism, but then it's absolutely necessary to use one of the main effects of Feudalism.

 

[MyOtherName]

I think archers are great. I don't see why nobody thinks Archery is really useful.

Because they are out of the way in the tech tree and don't do much for you in the early game.

The benefit for getting them very early is to deal with barbarians. But you can usually obviate that need with fogbusting and fortifying warriors on forested hills. Furthermore, chariots and axemen render archers obsolete for this purpose.

The other benefit is for defense; they defend your cities really well. But things really have to be going badly for you to need defense in your cities. I suppose 1 or 2 archers might be good to have to provide defense in your bronze unit stacks, but it's not clear they are a superior choice than simply using an appropriate mix of melee units.


Now, if you're rushing to horse archers (yay Mongols), and there aren't more pressing concerns, (e.g. need a development tech, or I need scouting units) then it can be convenient to get archery early enough to build a few before you start mass producing other units.

 

[pi-r8]

I was able to pull of something of an archer rush in my most recent emperor level game. It wasn't really a rush, I just ended up with no metals and nothing useful to build, so I built 100000 archers (rough estimate) and conquered Delhi and Bombay from Asoka. The WW was pretty bad, though...

 

[ggganz]

How, um, rough is that estimate?
Seriously, about how many did that take?

 

[azzaman333]

It would take a lot of archers to kill an Indian capital unless you're protective or Mali because not only does it take like 4 attacking Archers to kill 1 city defending archer especially when the city has 60%, which Holy Cities consistently do (and Indian consistently has holy cities).

 

[seizer]

There are a number of factors that can make an archer rush a good choice.

- You start with hunting.

- You are playing an aggressive leader (cheaper barracks)

- You are playing on prince or lower difficulty.

-You have a nearby AI to rush
-That AI is likely to not beeline archery/does not start with hunting.
-That AI is likely to go for an early wonder (= many AI's that start with mysticism).

- You have great early production (forested plains hills).

I would say that if you start next to a wonder-hungry AI on prince or lower difficulty and you start with hunting an archer rush will almost always be the ideal strategy.

(Que someone working out the numbers and proving that a warrior rush would be more effective.)

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I would add to list that random event which gives cover to archer units. I got it when playing Toku when i was just starting to build archers to get rid of Isabella.

 

[lutzj]

Don't forget Sitting Bull; the totem pole/ barracks combo can come online very early, and Protective is just icing on the cake

If only Native America started with Hunting/Mysticism (historically accurate and perfect for archer rush)...

 

[Willem]

I'm sure people have already been using this, but I recently took out the byzantines and their buddhist holy city with an early bowman rush. Thye only had warriors so my bowman dispatched them quickly. I'm sure it would wrk for skirmisher rushes too. No one ever talks about them, so i had to bring it up. quickest rush ever I think.

I've taken out rival civs with just Warriors. For awhile whenever I started a game, I would put my only citizen on a Forest tile, then build 6 Warriors right in a row. Then when each one was built I'd send it off exploring. As soon as one of them found another civ, I'd have them converge and attack once they were all together. Most of the time I would only encounter a single Warrior in the city and was able to wipe out their only city without too much problem. Occasionally though I'd run into a civ that started with Hunting and beelined for Archery so my Warriors just weren't up to the task of taking the city.

The moral of the story is that you don't have to wait for Archery to rush your neighbours. It can be very effective you do it right away when you start a game. It was always nice having that extra space to expand into after my nearest neighbour was gone. And occasionally I'd take out a civ that had founded Buddhism as well.

 

[Tlalynet]

Is that on a decent level? Warriors do almost no damadge to archers because of archers first strike. They could do it but they can barely beat other warriors.

Mali is my favorite civ, and the Skirm rush is doable at monarch if you build quite a few and start next to a building civ. Does the AI start with Archery or just an archer, they only seem to have one for the first 20-30 turns (If im gonna rush someone i place a warrior on a hill to see what their up to)

Axes are NOT just a few turns away from archers. Even if youre copper is in your city radius you need the wheel and you need to take time to build roads and a mine. In most cases it is NOT in your city radius, and that means building a settler and longer roads and turns and turns and turns... The point of the archer rush is to kill a builder civilization and take thier capital before they can expand or get a defense. You can do it with axes, but you have to be lucky, if you play Mali you just need an opponent that doesent have a hill.

 

[Supr49er]

Nope. Just several archers, 2 workers, and 2 settlers, If I'm not mistaken.

I saw Pericles start with the following:

4 archers
2 scouts
2 workers
2 settlers

 

[Mesix]

The Inca special unit is a warrior that gets +100% vs archery units. If you really want an early war at the beginning of the game, there is none better. No research required. Just build and attack. As long as you find the enemy cities before they have axemen, you'll do fine.