Beginner really wants to like this game but...

D

davidmor

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
3
so far I just don't. I have never played a Civ game before but have read for years that people love them. So I figured that I would pick up a copy of Civ IV and give it a go. I love turned based RPG's and enjoy strategy games so I figured that this would be right up my alley. So far all I seem to be doing is a lot of deciding what to build next not understanding why I should pick one thing over another, and clicking on the end turn button. Just about everything else is automatic. Not exactly what I think of as fun. Now I know that I can disable some of the automation but that brings up another problem, the tutorial. To put it bluntly, it is terrible. Usually a tutorial does a fair job of explaining the basics and what you need to do to win. In this case I would also expect an overview of the concept of what the game is all about and how to enjoy it. The game seems to be quite complex and that is where I am falling down. :blush: It is very different from all the other games out there so it seems to me that the tutorial should be different also. Maybe they should have given us an optional more in depth tutorial for those of us who have never played a Civ game before.

I guess what I am saying is HELP! I really want to like this game but right now I just don't understand what makes this game so addictive. Is there a good website or book that does a good job of explaining this game to a rank beginner? Maybe a walkthrough of a game so I can see what I need to be doing? I have read these forums and I am sure that they are full of great info for veteran Civ players but to be honest, I feel like I am about 10 years behind so none of what I read makes much sense. I don't want to think I just wasted $50 but I unfortunately found myself looking in the game section of the store yesterday to find a new game that I would like. Once that happens, Civ IV will end up on the shelf collecting dust and I get the feeling that I will have missed out on something great. :sad:
 
It's always like that the first game you play, same with most TBSs (I never yet got past that point with GalCiv, for instance). It's not long before you find yourself hooked on it, but you do need to give it a couple of games, and maybe up the difficulty to Warlord (assuming you started on Settler).
 
Civ4 is probably the first in the series that actually forces you to go and make the game for yourself.

I used to play a 'builder' type game in the previous civs, and it could be done with ease. I'd usually appease my rivals while building up my infrastructure until my economy and production was towering over them all, then I'd flatten them all in a matter of turns in the late game.

You just can't do that anymore. You actually need to make civ4 a game lasting all turns, and although firaxis probably didn't intend it to be like this, the game requires more micro-management than any of the predecessors.
 
This will be heresy to many Civ4 fans, but my suggestion would be to pick up Civ2 or Civ3 and start there first since you have never played any games in the franchise...those games are easier to learn IMHO, and will give you a good conceptual base for Civ4...and you can get used copies pretty cheap on eBay or Amazon.com...
 
or you can download FreeCiv for free, if you have access to a linux computer.
 
Whatever many people will say, this game is really difficult to handle at the first look.

There are many details which may confused you at first but makes the game deeper in the long run.

I think the best strat here is to concentrate on the basics at first, and forget the "advanced" stuff i.e. 95% of what is discussed here :rolleyes: .

What are the basics?

1. How you get ressources and what they are
2. What you must do to get more ressources
3. How you build units and buildings
4. How the research system work
5. How the commerce system work
6. How battles are fought

What is advanced stuff?

1. which building build first
2. diplo strat
3. religious strat
4. civics strat
5. wonders strat
etc...

The message is get to basics first, you cannot understand the whole game before get those bases.

You cannot understand the wonder of a Wonder without understanding what a hamme point is doing in your life.

I hope someone will post a link to a file to explain you those basic concepts.

Good luck..

And once you'll be hooked, you'll want trick to get out of civ :crazyeye: .
 
i dont have link but in the statigies find sullas walkthrough, im also a beginner i got civ4 on relese day because the week b4 i read so much, at first it was tough but u love this game
 
Two things. Civ is deeper than most games, so it takes awhile to learn. And as far as choices go, making good choices is what the game is about (in the strategic sense).
 
oldStatesman said:
This will be heresy to many Civ4 fans, but my suggestion would be to pick up Civ2 or Civ3 and start there first since you have never played any games in the franchise...those games are easier to learn IMHO, and will give you a good conceptual base for Civ4...and you can get used copies pretty cheap on eBay or Amazon.com...
Click to expand...
I definitely agree to this. I started with Civ 3, so playing Civ 4 was not overwhelming. Also Civ 3 is easier. I use to fair pretty poorly in Civ 3, and now at the difficulties that I was playing before isn't particularly challenging anymore.
 
davidmor said:
so far I just don't. I have never played a Civ game before but have read for years that people love them. So I figured that I would pick up a copy of Civ IV and give it a go. I love turned based RPG's and enjoy strategy games so I figured that this would be right up my alley. So far all I seem to be doing is a lot of deciding what to build next not understanding why I should pick one thing over another, and clicking on the end turn button. Just about everything else is automatic. Not exactly what I think of as fun. Now I know that I can disable some of the automation but that brings up another problem, the tutorial. To put it bluntly, it is terrible. Usually a tutorial does a fair job of explaining the basics and what you need to do to win. In this case I would also expect an overview of the concept of what the game is all about and how to enjoy it. The game seems to be quite complex and that is where I am falling down. :blush: It is very different from all the other games out there so it seems to me that the tutorial should be different also. Maybe they should have given us an optional more in depth tutorial for those of us who have never played a Civ game before.

I guess what I am saying is HELP! I really want to like this game but right now I just don't understand what makes this game so addictive. Is there a good website or book that does a good job of explaining this game to a rank beginner? Maybe a walkthrough of a game so I can see what I need to be doing? I have read these forums and I am sure that they are full of great info for veteran Civ players but to be honest, I feel like I am about 10 years behind so none of what I read makes much sense. I don't want to think I just wasted $50 but I unfortunately found myself looking in the game section of the store yesterday to find a new game that I would like. Once that happens, Civ IV will end up on the shelf collecting dust and I get the feeling that I will have missed out on something great. :sad:
Click to expand...

Well the thing to is Civ isn't like most games because there is no "big boss", there is not rigid storyline. It's simply what it is. Civ 4 in particular is like a big, huge, really huge board game. In the final analysis it is actually a very simple formula. It becomes addictive the exact moment you start to get kind of good at it, and you get those "Hah!" moments when you really beat them all.
 
I'm also a beginner with similar feelings.

In my perspective, Civ4 is a lot like chess. You can learn the rules perfectly, but you will have absolutely no idea about strategy. You can play a dozen games, and still not have a clearer idea of strategy. With the exception of the space victory, which sort of happens by itself automatically on easier difficulties, I find winning the game as difficult as acheiving a checkmate without knowing the strategies for doing so.

To make this situation worse, neither the tutorial nor the manner have any significant discussion of strategy. In fact, the tutorial is really nothing more than a survey of the interface.

In many games, you will just sort of pick up strategy as you play. After you have played a certain number of games, you can expect to have a certain level of competancy. Civilization IV does not seem to be one of these games. Apparently, you must spend time analyzing the tech tree and wonders, and reading strategy guides et cetera on the Internet if you have any hope of progressing to higher levels.

And I thought I'd be able to play the game without reading the manual or that big poster.
 
aaronflavor said:
I'm also a beginner with similar feelings.

In my perspective, Civ4 is a lot like chess. You can learn the rules perfectly, but you will have absolutely no idea about strategy. You can play a dozen games, and still not have a clearer idea of strategy. With the exception of the space victory, which sort of happens by itself automatically on easier difficulties, I find winning the game as difficult as acheiving a checkmate without knowing the strategies for doing so.

To make this situation worse, neither the tutorial nor the manner have any significant discussion of strategy. In fact, the tutorial is really nothing more than a survey of the interface.

In many games, you will just sort of pick up strategy as you play. After you have played a certain number of games, you can expect to have a certain level of competancy. Civilization IV does not seem to be one of these games. Apparently, you must spend time analyzing the tech tree and wonders, and reading strategy guides et cetera on the Internet if you have any hope of progressing to higher levels.

And I thought I'd be able to play the game without reading the manual or that big poster.
Click to expand...

Bingo! You just explained exactly what I was trying to say. I understand the basics of what I should be doing, but actually doing it is another thing all together. I guess I am just frustrated that I am not picking the game up as easily or quickly as other games I play. I have played some very deep and complex games and none of them had such a steep learning curve as this one has for me. I will read the walkthrough and play along with it. Hopefully that will help push me over the edge from being bored and frustrated to excited and hooked! :)
 
I'll give one advice:

Don't think about strategy or winning. Just play along and manage your civ as best as you can. You don't play The Sims or Sim City for winning either - Civilization is sort of similar. Think of it as a Civilization manager first and start thinking about playing competitively and winning only once you've grasped the nature of the game. The best way to learn is to just play and discover new stuff once they come along - and that is what eventually gets you hooked! ;)
 
Geostrophic said:
or you can download FreeCiv for free, if you have access to a linux computer.
Click to expand...
It's available for OSX and Windows too, there are compiled installers.
 
No, if you want to try them, go here - Civilisation 1 & 2, free and legal:

Moderator Action: Link removed.

Piracy is not tolerated here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Civ4 is a much more complicated game than the first. As it is free and legal, yet still a great game, and significantly more simple, I would suggest trying out the first Civilisation and having a couple games. You will prolly enjoy it like the millions before you and appreciate Civ4 all the more. Maybe even try Civ II for a few games after the 1st (jeez, what I woulda given to have the option to just pull out Civ II & Civ IV back when I discovered the addiction that is Civilisation!).

Failing that, fact is there are some people who just don't get Civ and don't like Civ and never will. I have a lot of friends who are gamers and a couple of em have tried and hated every Civ including this one, never getting what the rest of us are on about, despite them also loving games like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Heroes of Might & Magic, Age of Empires, Rise of Nations, and Master of Orion, being types of games which you probably also enjoy.
 
Incidentally, there are literally hundreds of other great games at that site I just linked. Anyone reading this, trust me, I'm not spamming - take a few moments, it's worth a look. My comp is loaded with these gems.
 
Civilization is about controlling an empire and do everything in its interest.
You see its influence spread and you see your money and your power increasing. This is the joy of the game - winning can actually feel kind of empty...
 
sausnebb said:
- winning can actually feel kind of empty...
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself...;) :)
 
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