Best knight?

[TheLastOne36]

Which Knight do you think is the best?

Regular Knight:
10 strength
2 moves
90 hammers

Requires: Guilds & Horseback Riding, Horse and Iron
Immune to first strikes
Doesn't receive defensive bonuses

---

Conquistador: Spanish UU replacement of Knight.
12 strength
2 moves
90 hammers
Requires:Guilds & Horseback Riding Horse & Iron

2 first strikes
Immune to first strikes
+50% vs. Melee Units

---

Camel Archer: Arab UU replacement of Knight.
10 strength
2 moves
90 hammers
Requires: Guilds & Horseback Riding & Archery
Immune to first strikes
Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
Can withdraw from combat (25% chance)
*resource less*
----

I think it's pretty obvious the Conquistador is the strongest. 12 Str itself makes it the best. the 50% vs melee is just a bonus. Discuss the knights and how to improve the weaker versions of the knights here:

 

[Fireseal]

Radioactive Monkeys pwn all

 

[AfterShafter]

Conquistador isn't actually knight class... It replaces Cuirassier's, not Knights. Cataphracts are another Knight class unit.

 

[TheLastOne36]

oh, i placed this in the bts forum? i thought i put this in the vanilla forum...

 

[jray]

Don't forget that Conquistadors get defensive bonuses. That's what really makes them stand out.

 

[Jaybe]

Voted radioactive.
Mongolian keshik: Modded to be knight-class, strength 12, +25% vs. mounted, +25% city attack. Gives it terrifying strength against its historical contemporaries (keshik composite bow trumped crossbow of eastern europe).

But no, I do not play as Mongolia; I play always as Rome. In my current game I had to rush to military techs just to survive ... Mongolia is on the same continent and vassalized everyone else.

 

[AfterShafter]

Voted radioactive.
Mongolian keshik: Modded to be knight-class, strength 12, +25% vs. mounted, +25% city attack. Gives it terrifying strength against its historical contemporaries (keshik composite bow trumped crossbow of eastern europe).

Uh... Exactly where does that unit come from? It's pretty ridiculous by the standards of UU power currently in game.

 

[Jaybe]

History, AfterShafter, history.
I am in only my second game of it this way, and it's possible I'll remove the changes sometime. Also, I play at Noble.

No one is asking you to play it my way.

 

[AfterShafter]

History, AfterShafter, history.
I am in only my second game of it this way, and it's possible I'll remove the changes sometime. Also, I play at Noble.

No one is asking you to play it my way.

Not suggesting you were saying I should play it your way. I'm just wondering where such a blatantly, freakishly overpowered unit came from. If that's how you like to play it, fill your boots

But, for the purpose of this thread, we could mod up a knight with 999 attack power, every promotion, 50 movement per turn, and say "Wow, look, the best knight!" Units modded to be *way* more powerful than their regular counterparts really shouldn't be included in a "Which is the best units of this type" threads.

 

[Jaybe]

It just came from my reading HOW the Mongols were stomping every army into the mud (well bloodied mud, at that). Doesn't seem too overpowered relative to the historical. Might possibly change the +25% vs mounted to +25% vs knights, though. Got to keep their day in the sun transient, of course.

 

[AfterShafter]

It just came from my reading HOW the Mongols were stomping every army into the mud (well bloodied mud, at that). Doesn't seem too overpowered relative to the historical. Might possibly change the +25% vs mounted to +25% vs knights, though. Got to keep their day in the sun transient, of course.

When you start playing history, let me know Relative to Civilization, it's utterly devastating... A knight that's more powerful than a cuirassier (see: mounted unit that comes significantly later). The cataphract is an era dominating unit, and it's a 12 strength knight with no bonuses whatsoever.

 

[dankok8]

Byzantine cataphracts are by far the strongest and they are not on the list.

And conquistadors now replace cuirassiers in BTS; they used to kick ass before and now they plain suck!!

 

[JustinianVII]

The best Knight replacement is the one not on here...
Cataphracts dominate Medieval and Renaissance armies and aren't outclassed until Rifling.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I actually like Jaybe's Keshiks because let's face it, gameplaywise, with the complete lack of other things they have going for them, the Mongols could really use an overpowered UU. They'd be playable then, though still not outright good.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

I actually like Jaybe's Keshiks because let's face it, gameplaywise, with the complete lack of other things they have going for them, the Mongols could really use an overpowered UU. They'd be playable then, though still not outright good.

I moved keskiks to knights for historical reasons and kept them the same as regular knight except the ignore terrain movement cost, and I gave them the camel archer 15% withdrawl chance and gave the camel archer the keskiks first strike as this made more sense historically (mounted archers with first strike and the mongols loved to feign attacks withdrawl and then counter attack, keskiks were not all just archers either, they had light and heavy calvalry mixed in too)

The way to fix the mongols is to fix their worthless UU, the +2 xp they get over regular stables is worthless, both the mongol and other civs get units with 2 promotions with barracks + stables, the only advantage the mongols have is if you run both theocracy and vassalage, which is not always possible

my solution was to give the ger +3 more xp for a total of +7 exp, so the mongols get 3 promotions instead of 2 like everyone else, i feel this is historically accurate to show there superior horsemanship and balances them out quite nicely

i have played with them in the game twice now, once when I was the greeks and the other as the romans and it helped them out, but did not overpower them

 

[AfterShafter]

I moved keskiks to knights for historical reasons and kept them the same as regular knight except the ignore terrain movement cost, and I gave them the camel archer 15% withdrawl chance and gave the camel archer the keskiks first strike as this made more sense historically (mounted archers with first strike and the mongols loved to feign attacks withdrawl and then counter attack, keskiks were not all just archers either, they had light and heavy calvalry mixed in too)

The way to fix the mongols is to fix their worthless UU, the +2 xp they get over regular stables is worthless, both the mongol and other civs get units with 2 promotions with barracks + stables, the only advantage the mongols have is if you run both theocracy and vassalage, which is not always possible

my solution was to give the ger +3 more xp for a total of +7 exp, so the mongols get 3 promotions instead of 2 like everyone else, i feel this is historically accurate to show there superior horsemanship and balances them out quite nicely

i have played with them in the game twice now, once when I was the greeks and the other as the romans and it helped them out, but did not overpower them

Now that is a very elegant solution to the Mongol problem. You have my applause. Great movie reference as a name too - woefully unappreciated, those films are!

 

[TheLastOne36]

i feel this is historically accurate to show there superior horsemanship and balances them out quite nicely

Superior? HA

Polish Winged Hussaria beats all:

Who can beat a Knight/Cuirassur that can take out Pikes?

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

Canadians with hockey sticks destroy you all.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

Superior? HA

Polish Winged Hussaria beats all:

Who can beat a Knight/Cuirassur that can take out Pikes?

Ha ha, they didnt really fare all that well against the golden horde though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe#Against_Poland_.281259_and_1287.29

 

[Jtownsend]

Several centuries off. I don't know if the Hungarians even had Hussars then, much less the Poles.