Bickering must end, the CLOSURE OF THE IROQUOIS WAR

[Provolution]

The beginning of Term IV has been very messy indeed, and there are so many variables impacting each other and that hinge upon the final resolution of the Iroquois conflict that I found it needed to repoll as the following will happen.

MSAV can deliver 8 swordsmen for disbanding for temples and courthouses. If the war continues, we may lose these disbands and reconstruction go slower.

MSAV HAS to use the Great Leader Tojo for Cavalry Army.

MSAV has reserved Samurai Elites for the Imperial Commando, as verified in the support for the Imperial Commando

MSAV have been tasked to send all expeditions of 3 Galleons into Shiken Ocean, as well as building an Eastern Navy of 5 Galleons and 2 Frigates

MSAV went too far in the following war, we should have stopped before Salamanca, or continued to the end. The invasion did not follow any doctrines and instructions was failed to be submitted to limit conquests to the Iroquois Doctrine.


The people seems to go for Democracy

The people seems to want Veii/Yatta as new forbidden capital , with population 1, 80 % waste and corruption and no courthouse/temple. (This means, no Great Leader, and production here is abysmal.

The people seems to go for Magellans Wonder in Zojoji

The people seems to go for moderate cultural war and a limited wonder policy

The people seems to go for growth and production sciences

This means, there is no troops to fight the war except for the Veteran Samurais and the few Cavalry units we have, and we need to figure out the final policy NOW. So I will not walk around in the dark anymore, and present you two clear cut policies, and there is no OTHER this time around.

For all those wanting a final endgame diplomatic victory or histograph victory, I recommend to leave Salamanca with Pyramids and Sistine Chapel. This will be loyal to the Southern Doctrine for a Defensive War against the Iroquois, and will allow the Iroquois nation to be more or less a nation, but Rome will be "freed" by us, and we took their Saltpeter as well as five cities. This will give The Roman province a clean Southern Border and a toral of 9 cities.
However we will ask for Tonawonda as a Naval Port to squeeze the Babylonians with our own little Gibraltar in the peace treaty here, and get all the gold we can get from them.

for all those wanting a final endgame military conquest or domination victory, or cultural victory, I recommend to conquer Oil Springs and Niagara, and get a clean cut Southern border, and give us an Iroquois Southern Province of 4 cities.

I really have to abstain in this vote, but I can assure you I will raze Salamanca if the rest of you abstain as well, since we really need final, clean cut border with minimal cultural flipover risks and tangible build-up costs.
A plurality abstain, means the MSAV razing of Salamanca in this poll.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

I had to vote to take the other two as I really really really dont want to see Salamanca razed. I (personally) would like to end the war here and use what we ahve, but thats not a choice, so I'm going with the taking of the two extra cities.

SaaM
Imperialist War Criminal

 

[uXs]

As I allready voted in the other poll, conquer the West Coast: Allegheny and Grandriver.

 

[Provolution]

UXs, I count the other votes into abstain if they are less than the two other options.
I assure you to raze the city if option 3 and 4 is bigger than both 1 and 2. Unless, and only unless, you make all the other ones vote with you. Days of free choice are over.

 

[Cyc]

I chose Option number 2. It makes the most sense at this point.

 

[blackheart]

Happy times will come. No more long faces.

 

[Provolution]

Depends, either we will see riots and a longer occupation period (longer time before democracy/republic) which means angry and long faces. I can eradicate Salamanca, replacing long faces with cold scraped craniums, or you can retreat for a quicker transition to another government. As it stands, we cannot poll government change for 3-4 turnchats, thanks to the present situation.

 

[Nobody]

I didnt vote because i dont like the top two ideas and the way you have writen abstain is not really abstain is burn down a city we control with 2 wonders in it.

I think we should just make peace now, and keep the borders as they currently stand. The iroquios started the war they should be happy with what ever citys we leave them.
From another point of veiw, we will let the people of Salamanca decide, if they like there old way of life better then let them flip.

Also kind of off topic a while ago you (provolution) said something about making Salamanca a city not inside of any provinces. Kinda of like Washington. I like this idea.

 

[snipelfritz]

To give back or raze Salamanca seems silly to me, but if we don't conquer the Iroquois west cost, the city will be in grave danger of flipping. Therefore, I went #2. tee hee

 

[Black_Hole]

next time provo could you seperate "raze" and abstain, all polls should have an abstain option which counts as no opinon, this isnt just for ravensfire(*shock* ) but other people may not like the options, the way it is set up, etc... I am not saying this poll is set up wrong but that it needs and abstain option...
I am going for option 2 as I want to keep salamanca and not have it razed... but i guess that means we need to conquore more cities

 

[uXs]

I don't like the options on this poll. I wonder if it's possible to start legal action against it...

 

[Provolution]

UXS

Please try to do so, I am sourcing out an executive decision since you guys gave me a mixed message in the prebious poll. I am within my limits to ask for an advisory poll.
This is nothing but an advisory poll, and I polled these options in prder to get a clean border one way or another. I am not in the power to poll laws, but UXs, the people has been given so much bickering as made evident in the list for posting this poll.
Freezing the border is not an option, thanks to you guys voting Veii and Cavalry Army, by gving such results as well as mine mixed, we had to repoll.

 

[blackheart]

All of these polls are sending mixed messages. Are we going to keep the cities, continue conquering Iroquois, give back the land or what?! We need to take a slow down, take a step back, and start again.

How is voting for a cavalry army sending a mixed message? We need an army, regardless of war.

 

[Provolution]

Black heart, if you do not see the obvious, why this situation is untenable, I cannot help you, I tried to tell you, but you still ask questions. By setting it up as a two option poll, people has to pick a side, as there is only room for ONE decision, not two. this si a follow up poll on the other one, where people failed to agree. This polls seems to end that.

 

[blackheart]

Black heart, if you do not see the obvious, why this situation is untenable, I cannot help you, I tried to tell you, but you still ask questions. By setting it up as a two option poll, people has to pick a side, as there is only room for ONE decision, not two. this si a follow up poll on the other one, where people failed to agree. This polls seems to end that.

The disagreements have not ended, however. This is like picking the lesser of the two evils.

 

[Provolution]

Blackheart

Life is about picking the lesser of two evils, and this is the only way where we can cut a line over, I also notice you voted mostly alone here, what can that be.

 

[blackheart]

Blackheart

Life is about picking the lesser of two evils, and this is the only way where we can cut a line over, I also notice you voted mostly alone here, what can that be.

Hello? When was it policy to nitpick votes? I thought you were against that sort of pettiness. Seriously, if you are going to harass about my choice of votes then I will not continue to vote in your polls.

Politics is arguing and debating. It is not (almost) never clearcut solutions or fodder attempts, otherwise everyone could do it.

Life is about doing whatever you can until something stops you, usually yourself. Everyone has a choice of what they can do.

 

[Provolution]

Blackheart

Harass about your choice of votes? whatever I do is nothing good for you, whatever I do, you come up with some idea that this is not perfect, and needs to be fixed.
If the remainder of the people votes for one solution, and you still complain when everyone else made up their mind. Fair enough for me. You can vote what you want, and say what you want, but I am getting to the point I do not feel answering me back. I democratized war operations to be Citizen friendly, not to open up an avalanche of filibustering and destructive criticism. What if you wrote a post on how you would set up the polls, I have already seen Donsigs attempt. You know as everyone else that we got an extremely tricky situation with Veii, Forbidden Palace, Great Leader, Corruption levels, interest in a government change and an entire parade of intertwined and tricky issues impacting this war, including that everyone is divided on how this war should end. If you do not emphatize and recognize the mess we are in, at the same time we reformed the MSAV and you still ask for the impossible, ALONE, I would rather as you to recruit more thinkers to your criticism campaign.

 

[blackheart]

Yes, I would consider that harassment to point out how I voted and then end it with an ominous question. It is my role and responsibility as a citizen to question question question. I don't see any of this as destructive. If it were destructive there would be a lot more swear words. You're in a public office, you're going to get flak regardless.

And I do realize the situation we are in, but I am pointing out that there are mixed messages trying to solve mixed messages, most notably abstain being grouped with razing.

 

[Provolution]

I grouped Abstain with raziing in order to get the will of the people, since we also got others, Abstain has been to much abused as an escape pod for denying responsibility as citizens, causing a constitutional crisis. We really need to look into how potential damage from abstains can be avoided, and if I lock an executive decision to abstain, I am free to do so, in order to convince people to vote for constructive solutions, not apathetic or destructive ones.

Well , you can question question question, but now you write like a journalist hunting for blood, not as a responsible governor that needs to cooperate on all levels to make this clockwork tick. An idea stands and is applied, until you come up with a counterproposal. And I can give flak back to irresponsible criticism, being a citizen is not a presscard that makes you immune to criticism for bad choices or wrongful analysis. Finally, there is no mixed message in the last poll, either we step forwards, or we take one step back, Salamanca is not going through a culture flip thanks to the combined Veii as FP poll and the Great Leader as Cavalry Poll, The consequence of that poll, and the fragmented support for the Iroquois outcomes, forced this poll.