Bickering must end, the CLOSURE OF THE IROQUOIS WAR

[blackheart]

Ok here's my counterproposal:

1) Peace is our way
a) keep what you earn
b) let my people go!
2) To arms to arms
3) Genocide is always nice
4) Abstain

Peace is our way - we declare peace with the Iroquois without conquering anymore cities, if they don't want peace we play defensive until they do, option a) we keep what we took and will hold on to it like the jaws of life, option b) we give them back their cities in exchange for war reparations

To arms to arms - continue the conquest until the last vestige of Iroquois government is dusted

Genocide is always nice - continue the war and raze anything that even has a hint of Iroquois on it, excluding salamanca, which would get its own special poll since it has wonders

Abstain - practice your constitutional right to abstain because you disagree with the options, dont care, or are unwilling to make a choice based on the available information, not as an escape pod as some would say.

Note that some of these polls would then be narrowed down to more specific options.

 

[Provolution]

Well, what can I say....

 

[Black_Hole]

blackheart let me remind you this is a game, dont be hunting around for just abstain
its one city in one game!
let the minister incharge take care of it, in the way he wants.... the ministers can direct/interperet the WOTP as they want to some extent

 

[Provolution]

Black_Hole

Good you are wise enough to see what is really going on here.

 

[Ashburnham]

I must say, Provolution, that I do not approve of the way you've decided to finish this issue. You may only see two viable options for our Iroqouis gains, but as your original poll states, the people's two highest choices were returning Salamanca and calling a Ceasefire. I don't understand why you didn't include the Ceasefire option in this poll. I also disapprove of your usage of the Abstain option. Voting Abstain shouldn't have some sort of rider attached to it, it should simply be abstaining. By voting Abstain, one is saying that they trust the will of the rest of the people who vote. Attaching something like the razing of a Wonder city is a ridiculous addition, and one that only confuses the voting process. I can understand your frustration with the delay in getting a sound Iroqouis stratagy finished, but you must remember: Democracy is a slow process. I would rather take enough time to thoroughly discuss the issue than rush into a decision without the proper consideration for alternatives.

However, I'd imagine there's little chance that you'll change your mind over this. As it is, I voted to return Salamanca. As much as I love Wonders, I can't condone the brutal, purposeless destruction of a neighboring civilization.

 

[Provolution]

Problem is Ashburnham, that people delayed and worked against my doctrines from day one. The Iroquois war was a war I inherited. However, if the people want to stop the turnchat on Wednesday to poll this, please feel free to do so. I could not possibly go for either a full conquest or for a ceasefire, as a full conquest would kill the Iroquois utterly, and I simply do not have the means to assure that Salamanca will stay safe unless we conquer two more neighboring cities. Normally, other MSAV ministers may not have polled this at all, and conquered as much as they could before they got a peace offer. The price I face now for democratizing this, is criticism whatever I do.
Some hawks wants the entire peninsula, where the majority indeed wants SOME conquest. Notice that I voted Ceasefire, UNTIL, some people decided to use the Great Leader for Cavalry Army, AND for Veii as the new capital. I read these and other polls simulatenously, and got a very fragmented poll to work with. Notice Ashburnham, MORE people voted for SOME conquest than the combined votes on Withdrawal and Ceasefire, which means that the main interest lay in further conquest. My doctrine has always been nice and defensible borders with tidy opportunities for pre-planning. CT's campaign was by no means bound by my authority, which means no doctrine was in place. If I wanted to, I would just finish them off, but since I still want us to consider a diplomatic victory, I had to leave some cities.

Again, if someone came up with a protest abstain vote on this, I would sanction such a filibustering with a razing in order to delineate our borders more clearly and orderly.
When people messed up with the Veii placement and no great leader, you made a choice, and there was no other recourse than to withdraw or advance.

In the future, people could use this as a lesson to paricipate heavily in doctrinal polls on how to handle each neighbor militarily, BEFORE they jump the bandwaggon when it is too late. But at least people have voted the other doctrines, operational from 1. Nov
2004, 00-00 GMT, and may reduce the impact of future wars on our neighbors and international reputation. Besides, The Roman Province would be too big, and leave no room for an Iroquois Province with this option. So this was also meant to balance ambassadors as well. I had to take into account numerous special interests, yours included. The polls had messy outcomes, and needed a firm hand to sort it out.

 

[Cyc]

Excellent poll, Minister Provolution. The results clearly show the will of the people. You have chosen wisely.

 

[Provolution]

The Iroquois Province should comprise of traditional Iroquois cities

Cattaraugus
Salamanca
Niagara
Oil Springs

This will be a domestic territory until we formally elect a Governor for Term V.

 

[blackheart]

blackheart let me remind you this is a game, dont be hunting around for just abstain
its one city in one game!
let the minister incharge take care of it, in the way he wants.... the ministers can direct/interperet the WOTP as they want to some extent

I'm saying that abstain shouldn't be grouped with razing. Just because someone abstains doesn't mean they're trying to impede any processes.

 

[Provolution]

I did not group abstain with anything, I just mentioned inaction had a consequence for how I should run the war. Normally, this would not even be polled, but I decided to.

 

[Nobody]

why was there no option for just making peace, as we are now? it was the first(equal) choice in the last poll. You saw the option you didnt like won the last poll so you made a new one without it.

 

[Provolution]

You guys messed uop with Veii and Cavalry army as well as other needs, so I did not have the means to secure only Salamanca, Tim Bentleys estimates prove this.
We also wanted a clean border and either a new province or no new province.

 

[Civanator]

Peace options are handled with the FA, not MSAV. The MSAV has complete control to kill enemy nations while at war until the FA says it's time for peace.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Indeed the FA's "Instructions" said to "Kill them all, this shouldn't need a poll."

Something tells me that this first TC will last less than 10 turns.

 

[blackheart]

Indeed the FA's "Instructions" said to "Kill them all, this shouldn't need a poll."

Something tells me that this first TC will last less than 10 turns.

Unfortunately he resigned, so I guess this nullifies his rather interesting instructions.

 

[GenMarshall]

Unfortunately he resigned, so I guess this nullifies his rather interesting instructions.

I agree and was supprised about the instructions DZ left at the time he was still in office.