Blackbetsy HOF Attempts

[Bartleby]

For the early rush, have you tried using the Inca, like I did on Standard Chieftain? (also with the Inca you can use huts to look for an early 2nd town)
The Aztecs could also work for that too but Barbarians would probably be more of a nuisance.

 

[BlackBetsy]

For the early rush, have you tried using the Inca, like I did on Standard Chieftain? (also with the Inca you can use huts to look for an early 2nd town)
The Aztecs could also work for that too but Barbarians would probably be more of a nuisance.

I have considered the Incas for Chasqui scout....curious why that table has 0 Inca.

 

[Spoonwood]

Iroquois, yes, but the Mounted Warrior isn't superior to the GS.

It costs less. Also, the mounted warrior can get upgraded from a chariot. I don't see why the extra defense of a GS over an MW would be helpful on Warlord.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Played with the Incas. Even with a game with 3 pretty favorable RNG's for Chasqui Scout on Warrior to take down capitals (now I'm making sure no Scientific / Bronze Working civs), I only did 370 BC, which is 9 turns off 10th place on Small / Warlord / Domination.

I've never had this much trouble getting on a table. This likely means I have a theory problem as much as an execution problem. I mean to talk through the theory.

Right now, I'm doing Chasqui - Chasqui - Settler - Granary build in the cap, and using the Chasquis to try to take 2 early AI capitals. With luck, I will then make peace with them for tech + gold + worker if I'm really lucky. Build settlers out of the captured capitals. Flip the capital to ToA after building a few settlers and maybe a few advanced units (horsemen / archers). Research to Poly, hopefully trade for Iron Working and Writing, or research Writing / Philo and then use free tech on Monarchy and revolt inter-turn.

Maybe what I should be doing at Warlord is taking the AI capitals per above and then just getting to 20 cities as fast as possible while the ToA is building. I'm getting a lot of limits in the 520 range, which means 21 cities with borders extended. I've done that by 1000 AD before, but only with the Pyramids, and by settling close to the capital, without doing the "long walks", and without CxxxxC spacing (the borders fill in the middle X). I could play this as an early SGL / Pyramids game but that leaves me with Sumeria as a not-good option. SGLs are rare enough for non-scientific civs (I've gotta 1 in playing something like 30 games so far) that I'd probably need 250 maps to get an SGL in a game where I also took out two AI capitals.

 

[Bartleby]

Do you have huts on, for an early town/settler? Maybe don't bother with the granary in the capital, just go straight to ToA after a few Chasquis and maybe one or two settlers.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Do you have huts on, for an early town/settler? Maybe don't bother with the granary in the capital, just go straight to ToA after a few Chasquis and maybe one or two settlers.

I don't. Maybe I should; can pop key techs BUT also means SGL is less likely. I've been doing non-religious AI to see if I can get an SGL on CB.

 

[Bartleby]

I guess if you pop the cheap techs you're left with more expensive ones to self-research, but there's still only time to research a handful of techs anyway so it's not like there's that many opportunities for the SGL.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I haven't won an RNG battle with Chasquis against fortified warriors since game 104, now on game 118.

 

[Bartleby]

That's pretty tough luck. I found as well that if the first attack promotes the warrior without damage there's a high chance of losing a stack of 4-5. On reflection that's probably why I wasn't focusing on getting an SGL, it might just be too much to ask for, luck with SGL and combat.

 

[BlackBetsy]

That's pretty tough luck. I found as well that if the first attack promotes the warrior without damage there's a high chance of losing a stack of 4-5. On reflection that's probably why I wasn't focusing on getting an SGL, it might just be too much to ask for, luck with SGL and combat.

It's up to attempt 121 now. I'm talking about 1 on 1 first attacks on the closest AI, all fails. Not even over rivers (25% defense bonus).

 

[BlackBetsy]

Wow, I've had a couple of attempts that I thought were going well but getting from 35-66% is almost impossible between 1200 BC and 700 BC. Others seem to have done it easily.

I actually think I am getting the ToA done too early; I could be making more troops. I feel like I have too few troops at the front to capture the AI's cities.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I *think* the answer is fast settler expansion, and then rapid military conquest. Probably the Iroquois are best with the fast 3 attack, 2 move unit dependent only on Horseback Riding. Looks like using a 1st ring city for ToA while turning cap into settler factory is the right move. In the meantime, you can do some early archer rushes to take 2 pop cities.

Rushing settlers from high-food towns also seems to be a good strategy to pump up city count.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I'm *truly* at a loss here on trying to break the Small Warlord Domination board. I haven't been within 10 turns of *10th* place with the Inca. I've tried a number of strategies, including just getting as many settlers out and being *lucky* with a few warrior wins early, and then building ToA closer to the end and trying to conquer the AI. I've tried a more military strategy of cranking out archers for an archer rush...still no good.

One thing I've learned is that early Chasqui Scout wins trigger golden ages that are too early to help with ToA, so I wind up building warriors instead and holding back on the Chasquis.

I've been digging through the save files of the winners and it seems like magic. For example Nikodemus had 12 cities in 1325 BC with only 18% of the territory. He had 11 Mounted Warriors, and was not in a Golden Age.

16 turns later (presumably in a Golden Age), he had the ToA built (was 20 turns away in 1350 pre Golden Age), 32 cities (a number captured of course), and 44 Mounted Warriors (2 per turn built at minimum). I am trying to understand how that happens. Obviously a Mounted Warrior per turn in the capital is realistic in a Golden Age, and cash rushing also helps. But you have to get them to the front and win battles.

Nikodemus didn't use a "long walk" strategy in the game - most of his cities were not optimally placed for ToA expansion.

One thing I've noticed is that the AI he selected were all Agricultural. In my game, I use the Maya (ag), Dutch (ag), but then Carthage, England, and the Vikings, which aren't ag. Ag cultures are more likely to have size 2 cities.

Another thing I haven't done is gifted Monarchy away when I get it. This would stop civs from pop rushing. I have to remember to do that.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I just did a 570 BC finish, 6 turns from getting on the Board. I definitely gifted away Monarchy and I wound up picking up 13 AI cities. I only needed 31 cities to win against a 543 domination limit.

But the biggest benefit I had was getting a SGL on CB; immediate Pyramids helped me pump out a lot of settlers. I don't necessarily want to be playing for CB SGLs with non-scientific civs though! That is a LOT of maps. In 45 attempts so far, I've gotten 2 SGL, and only 1 on CB.

I do wonder if fewer opponents is better for this. If you can get early Pyramids, you can expand early.

Definitely gotta get the Carthaginians out, maybe the Mayans. I just don't want to be up against those UUs.

 

[BlackBetsy]

One bad mistake I made was not exploring east of the first AI capital I took early (London). I only did it later, and I wound up getting 50 tiles (about 9% of the land mass) from the land I missed. Had I had it when the ToA expansion occurred, I would have won probably a few turns earlier, maybe enough to get on the board.

 

[BlackBetsy]

MapFinder got me 177 maps with the Iroquois on a Small Map with a grassland cow and at least 4 river tiles and a domination limit under 521 tiles. Opponents are the Dutch, Aztecs (I don't love this), and Inca. I'm going to play the 8 turns to get CB (roading the cow then irrigating) to see if I get an SGL for the Pyramids. I could probably play through Mysticism. Mathematically, I should get an SGL every 33 tries, so average luck will get me 5 SGLs. Pyramids even before first settler and then cranking out settlers fast.

My plan is to expand and go for Poly while trading for Warrior Code and Masonry and hoping the AI get me the Wheel while I am getting Poly. Then Writing / Philo / Monarchy and HBR as last tech before I flip to 100% cash generation and Mounted Warriors everywhere.

ToA from a 1st ring city with good shield production. Probably after I build a worker in that city.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Good news for my plan (attempt 6)!

Bad news for my plan!

You need Masonry for the Pyramids.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Fork in the road: (1) keep researching Mysticism and assume I will find the Inca (or at least their scout); (2) spend 14 turns researching Masonry.

I *think* the right answer is (1) while I build a Settler.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Fork in the road: (1) keep researching Mysticism and assume I will find the Inca (or at least their scout); (2) spend 14 turns researching Masonry.

I *think* the right answer is (1) while I build a Settler.

Was lucky that (1) worked in just 3 turns when I found an Incan border.

Was unlucky when the map revealed ZERO horse resources in any place I could settle.

 

[BlackBetsy]

On attempt 208 (2nd effort, 8th try), got an SGL with Mysticism on a pretty small Dom Limit (479) but only won in 530 BC. I am not sure what went wrong, other than taking a bit to hook up horses and not building enough army to be ready to go for conquest. My ToA city didn't produce enough pre-GA shields as well, I think. We hit the Dom Limit as soon as the expansion happened.

This particular challenge is the hardest I've faced in terms of getting on a table, hands down.