BNW Oligarchy needs to be fixed

[Falconiano]

Old debate but needs some resuscitation.
Not only Cover does not protect from city's Ranged Attack because apparently a city tossing stuff at you is not a ranged attack, but +50% means I get hit by -80 evert turn.
That sort of thing is just crazy OP.
Defensively, it makes you oneshot one unit per turn as well, which means the AI stands no chance either, everyone turtles up until Arty.
And it comes with free maintenance for garrison unit which alone is worth the policy.

This happens basically against every single city in BNW since all AIs go Tradition it seems!

In my opinion either City Attack:
1) is mitigated by Cover (would be about time)
or
2) it goes down to +25%.

 

[Callonia]

I always pick up oligarchy no matter what because it makes units that's garrisoned free for maintenance otherwise your army will be super tiny and civs will declare eternal war on your civ.

And are you sure you're not picking a fight with a civ that also picked up goddess of protection? It buffs city ranged combat by further +30%.

 

[Tachii]

I don't think it need to be nerfed. Since,

A) No, not every civ gets Tradition
B) Taking a city was never supposed to be easy, and it doesn't make it impossible either. Assyria/Genghis/Huns are still OP as ever when it comes to city-taking.

Although combined with the Pantheon for +30% ranged strength, it literally hurts like a mofo. But that's called adapting. I'd avoid this civ for a while until maybe Crossbowmen or Gatling guns.

 

[Resipsa]

Maintenance free units should be given to Military Caste to buff up honor abit IMO.

 

[VainoValkea]

The city can only attack one unit per turn, even with oligarchy. That's a vital flaw - even if it's good against small invasion forces it still does little against those happy impi and an array of siege equipment.

Cover should reduce city damage too, though.

 

[sonicandfffan]

The trick to taking a city is moving everything into range in one turn and performing a mass attack.

You will lose units to city defences, cities are supposed to be well defended. The point is that no matter how powerful a city is, it can only hit one unit a turn. If you can't capture a city by the third turn (at the latest), then you probably shouldn't have attacked it in the first place.

Yes, you will lose units. But that's how early warfare works.

 

[jessie23]

Cover doesn't work against cities?

Maybe I should stop making it my primary upgrade go to then.

 

[sonicandfffan]

Cover doesn't work against cities?

Maybe I should stop making it my primary upgrade go to then.

yeah, you should just focus on accuracy/barrage or drill/shock until your fourth upgrade, that's where all the useful upgrades are (extra attack, extra movement, extra range for ranged units etc.) Make sure it's always the same one you upgrade (e.g. accuracy 1,2,3).

http://i.stack.imgur.com/8hrFA.jpg

 

[Exterminas]

City attacks also can go beyond mountains and are not affected by sight in any way. That is odd, to say the least.

Anyone ever tried to conquer a decently sized city with the Great Wall present? Fun times.

I agree that Oligarchy needs a nerf. The OP is absolutely right: The free maintenance costs alone make the policy worth getting, the attack bonus is just obscenely strong. In every approach you play, you will want Oligarchy, even as a warmonger with a wide puppet empire, since only Oligarchy allows for you to keep every city garrisoned, giving you the happiness from the right side of Honor.

 

[Chiatroll]

Maintenance free units should be given to Military Caste to buff up honor abit IMO.

I'd like this since honor could use a buff.

 

[andrew00100]

City attacks also can go beyond mountains and are not affected by sight in any way. That is odd, to say the least.

Anyone ever tried to conquer a decently sized city with the Great Wall present? Fun times.

I agree that Oligarchy needs a nerf. The OP is absolutely right: The free maintenance costs alone make the policy worth getting, the attack bonus is just obscenely strong. In every approach you play, you will want Oligarchy, even as a warmonger with a wide puppet empire, since only Oligarchy allows for you to keep every city garrisoned, giving you the happiness from the right side of Honor.

however at a warmonger you wont have enough culture to go down two policy trees

 

[gigaagig]

I'd like this since honor could use a buff.

Indeed, honor is quite weak now.

 

[Pnothy]

With the increased barb activity and trade routes going through the fog of war, I find the honor opener more useful than in G&K. The bonus gold is very welcome, since warmongering is now quite an expensive thing (keeping trade going strong during wartime is difficult). Buying and upgrading units is relatively more expensive, which also makes the faster XP more valuable.

 

[Ryoga]

I never actually realized this, but in the end I agree with sonicandfffan, I do happen now and then to attack cities that can practically one-shot my units, but that just makes it a little more difficult than usual and it's completely irrelevant once you gets frigates and artillery.

 

[bcaiko]

Cover doesn't work against cities?

Maybe I should stop making it my primary upgrade go to then.

Yeah, that's news to me, as well. Can someone verify, please?

 

[Matthew.]

Yeah that confuses me as well. I suppose I've never officially verified one way or the other, but having Cover II and being fortified down resulted in very little damage taken, so I've always just assumed it worked.