Boycott Civ 4

[steviejay]

If Islam conquered the world, all advances in technology would have come to a halt.

I honestly have not heard such a small minded comment before in my life. I actually had to stop reading and physically close the page down because I just couldn't believe that someone could write something so untrue. During the Dark Ages (Dark Ages in Europe, take note) the Islamic nations were years and years ahead of others in terms of research, and I'm sorry but I just can't say anymore than that.

Buy Civ, play Civ, buy Civ again, simply to piss this guy off. inbred fool

 

[DrewTate]

Okay yeah that was during the dark ages in Europe.

Where are the Islamic states now compared to the Christian states? Still back in the stone ages, and that is what the terrorists want to bring us back to.

 

[wioneo]

If you start a USA chant, you'll have to die. Althought they are behind, they are not in the "Stone Ages" technology just isn't as widely accesible to their general public.

I'm sure that someone will think of a predominately Christian country somewhere that is behind, but I'm too lazy...

 

[King Flevance]

If you start a USA chant, you'll have to die.

ROFL.
minimum charactors

 

[DrewTate]

So if I hypothetically start a "chant" on the message board, I will die?

And no where was anything said about the USA. How do you know I don't live in Rome or Lyons or Barcelona.

I am from the USA and I am Christian. I believe most successful countries happen to be Christian, be it Catholic or Protestant.

However, I hvae no problem with the Muslums that just want to get along with life, do their thing, and worship their God. I do have a problem with the extremists who want to take us back to the stone age that they still live in.

 

[King Flevance]

I think the reason the Islamic nations are so far behind is not due to religion but due to misguided budgets. Efficient Distribution for one thing should be focused on more. But that is only a tip of an iceberg I know little about in depth.

 

[Baloo]

Is it really a coincidence that all rich, free, and succsessfull societies have adopted a western (christian) style of government? Just look at Japan. In the 19th century it was a back water and by WW1 it was an important industrial power. Same with china.
Note: I am not christian or american.

Japan never adopted anything remotely associated with Christianity. By WW1 is became an industrial power (to a certain extent) because if heavy investment in western technology and ideology, but not christian.
Don't confuse a religion with free ideology. The relaxed, market economy is more responsable for the relative success than any faith.

 

[zx1111]

Japan never adopted anything remotely associated with Christianity. By WW1 is became an industrial power (to a certain extent) because if heavy investment in western technology and ideology, but not christian.
Don't confuse a religion with free ideology. The relaxed, market economy is more responsable for the relative success than any faith.

Christianity in Japan was most unsuccesul major religion.
It arrived around early 16C to Japan (first missionary) but never be a major religion.
According to current statstics, only less than 1% of Japanese have Christian religion today (both Catholic and protestant included).
On the countrary, Christianity arrived in Korea lately than Japan and very harshly oppressed by government (many matayers) , But now Christianity accounts about 30% of Korean today.
Christianity has nothing to do with Japanese economic success. It is imperialism which contributed most to Japanese economic suceess. Free market also has not contibuted much to Japaneses success before 1980. Before then Japanese market was one of most protected/closed/ government-regulated market among developed counties.
On the same token, it is Imperialism which contributed most to sucess of western countries like England, France, Germany, Spain, Holland, U.S.A. etc... not Christianity or free market.
Chirsitianity was only used as spearhead for such imperial invasion to African/Asian/South American counties.

 

[Glinka]

I also wouldn't suggest claiming that Japan became successful because of a "Western style government," with or without religion. Japan now has parliamentary trappings, but the feudal system, honor-based ethics, bribery, and all the good and bad of the traditional Japanese culture are just beneath the surface. Thousands of years of doing things in one way didn't get changed virtually overnight.

On more serious matters, it's plain that in Civ4 Jehovah used Sid Meier as His instrument to tempt humanity. Those who fall, fall into The Pit. Those who resist temptation, shall receive their seats in Heaven. Hallelujah!

Gods, I think I'm going to spew.

 

[Baloo]

Free market also has not contibuted much to Japaneses success before 1980. Before then Japanese market was one of most protected/closed/ government-regulated market among developed counties.

1980? maybe, 1880. Japan had opened up in the 19th century. If you mean government subsidies and protectionist practices during the 60s and 70s, it was no more protectionist than other countries. To this day the US and the EU are the most protective of their agricultural industry. Plenty of countries were protecting their industry in the 60s and 70s, nearly all developing economies today protect their local industry in one way or another to help them expand.

 

[Gam]

Here's an "interesting" read.

It might have been posted here before, as it's dated november 11 2005. It basically claims Civ4 is anti-christian and evil.

From the site:



Well, needless to say I won't dignify this senseless rant with a serious comment, but I just thought you might like to read for a quick laugh .

I find it rather hillarious how he complains about the lack of a 'conservativism' (which he calls conservatism) advance, as opposed the liberalism technology in the game.

Hum, ho; I'd imagine a conservativism advance is absent from the game because it doesn't take any technological or cultural advantages to maintain the status quo.

Heh. What a whiner!

 

[Gam]

Is it really a coincidence that all rich, free, and succsessfull societies have adopted a western (christian) style of government? Just look at Japan. In the 19th century it was a back water and by WW1 it was an important industrial power. Same with china.
Note: I am not christian or american.

Back in the Medieval days, the Moslem nations were the centers of technological and intellectual progress.

And I would not argue that western civilization means christian civilization by any means. The governments of Western Europe became less and less oppressive, and their subjects more free and prosperous, as religion (christianity) was progressively stricken from the workings of said governments.

Here in the USA today we find our freedoms being encroached upon by the resurgence of right-wing attempts to force laws based entirely on christianity onto the entire population of the country.

Indeed, the most religiously Christian nations of the West were probably the more oppressive regimes of the times before the modern era. When Christianity reigned in the Medieval times, science was suppressed and the people fed lies. The disappearance of such theocratic rule was what saw progress in the West.

I would certainly not say that Christianity had such a great part in the development of free governments. If anything, look at the fact that the theocracies, such as Spain, did not follow much of the book at all; they were violent and oppressive.

And there have been successful, free, prosperous nations without any roots in Christianity. See Japan and Israel, for example.

 

[Snerk]

*reading first post article*

Ah! So the christian conservative doesn't approve of civ4.. now theres a shocker!
When was the last time they approved anything really? (except the bible ofcourse... for now )
Can't the christian conservative just let us know when they actually approve of something instead of always giving everybody minus points for "you have fallend under the sway of a heathan religion "
I think they would save a lot of time if they just automaticly disaprove everything until further notice...
Then they would have A LOT more time on their hands.... just an idea...

 

[AvianAvenger]

Is it really a coincidence that all rich, free, and succsessfull societies have adopted a western (christian) style of government? Just look at Japan. In the 19th century it was a back water and by WW1 it was an important industrial power. Same with china.
Note: I am not christian or american.

One thing christianity DID do for japan was help destroy the warlord ideal. Japan closed off its borders to the rest of the world after the religion started to spread to try and stop it spreading any further, they succeeded in doing this (killed many people that converted to christianity) however... the alot of the christian ideals (mainly no-slavery) stayed over and people finally rised up and started challenging the athority of the warlords.
A side effect of closing off their borders however was they seriously fell behind technological wise, the rest of the world developed guns while they were still using swords... it wasnt untill some guy wanted cannons they they re-opened the borders and started importing/exporting again.

...thats all according to some history doco i was watching, you will have to look up yourself for the exact details.

i guess it was tokugawa that wanted the cannons, http://www.geocities.com/azuchiwind/map.htm check out how much he conquered between 1560 & 1582 (scroll down a bit on the page).

- edit
@ sweetpete
Maybe if you just automatically disproved of people disproving of things it would save you a whole lot of time.

 

[Baloo]

One thing christianity DID do for japan was help destroy the warlord ideal. Japan closed off its borders to the rest of the world after the religion started to spread to try and stop it spreading any further, they succeeded in doing this (killed many people that converted to christianity) however... the alot of the christian ideals (mainly no-slavery) stayed over and people finally rised up and started challenging the athority of the warlords.

Not quite. While Christinanity spreading through Japan was a worry for some of the Daiymo's (warlords), Christianity itself was not a major deal. Japanese hated the fact that the missionaries were using their influence to try to control Japan and make it a Portugese colony eventually. Slavery was not part of Japanese society, it was a very rigorous caste system. People were conditioned to respect their superiors to the point of death.
The people never risen up in Japan. A number of Daimyos, mainly Choshu, Tosa, and Satsuma were unhappy with the Tokugawa Shogunate and it's represive regime. Choshu, Tosa, and Satsuma daimyos were trading with many nations for a long time, manily because of their location, and it was them that became powerful and were an actual threat to the Shogunate. This was the major reason behind Tokugawa closing the nation.

A side effect of closing off their borders however was they seriously fell behind technological wise, the rest of the world developed guns while they were still using swords... it wasnt untill some guy wanted cannons they they re-opened the borders and started importing/exporting again.

Yes, Japan became very backwards technologically during this time, but it was not the Japanese that wanted to open up the nation. Commodore Perry, and American Naval Commander came into Tokyo Bay with steam ships and threatened to bomb Tokyo if Japan did not start trading with America.



EDIT: after reading the link you have provided, there seems to be some discrepancy between the website and commonly taught history. I'm not saying the website is completely wrong but I know what I've been taught at University.