Brennus WHO?!
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DigitalBoy
Emperor
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I don't think the Gallic Warrior is all that bad a UU. A free promotion is a free promotion, and you can build the Gallic Warrior with copper according to v2.08's patch notes. Plus, Guerilla III gives +30% withdraw chance with the new patch. Maybe not your thing, but could be fun/useful. It's not really fair to compare it to the Praetorian; that thing just destroys every other ancient/classic era unit.
Don't care much for the dun though. Walls aren't something I usually like to be spending shields on in the early game unless I have stone, which I often don't.
Don't care much for the dun though. Walls aren't something I usually like to be spending shields on in the early game unless I have stone, which I often don't.
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Ahhh the "Are the Celts any good debate" is back.
Like what DigitalBoy and Sparta said.
Have a go and see for yourself the traits are bad at all, I've had one of my fastest Emporer space races with Brennus, and I only got to use Gallics about 5 times before I'd pounding Vicky into a tundra city giving me enough land to cruise to victory.
I've had games with Ramses where I've never been able to build chariots, and didn't have enough food to use obelisks but his traits are awesome.
Like what DigitalBoy and Sparta said.
Have a go and see for yourself the traits are bad at all, I've had one of my fastest Emporer space races with Brennus, and I only got to use Gallics about 5 times before I'd pounding Vicky into a tundra city giving me enough land to cruise to victory.
I've had games with Ramses where I've never been able to build chariots, and didn't have enough food to use obelisks but his traits are awesome.
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Augustus is just sick, I'd have to say my favourite combo of traits. I'm tempted to play a game with him and NOT build praetorians.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Yes, the Celts' UU/UB are relatively weak. However, there is a reason - the trait combination is superb. 
sylvanllewelyn
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Brennus is tricky to play. The main advantage of it's traits are hapiness bonuses from cheap temples, charismatic and obliesks. You essentially don't need calendar until the AD period. The reason why it's hard is because although this early advantage can be translated to either an aggressive or a peaceful powerhouse, it does need translating, and it's not like other traits where the road map is layed out for you. It's a great leader, but not in the hands of someone that doesn't have a plan in mind.
Maybe my v2.08 is broken, because i still cannot build them until iron.
Personally, I like Bren. He's no power house, but you can usually grab an early religion and the happiness boosts are nice.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
The main reason that Brennus is great for me is because of the trait combination which allows instant switching back and forth into the military civics, and then churning out cheaply promoted units. 8 XP gets you a level 4 unit, 13 XP gets you a level 5 unit... very nice indeed, and neither of them difficult to get with some or all of Barracks/Drydock/Vassalage/Theocracy/Pentagon/West Point/Great Generals.
Aside from that, Charismatic's +1 happy face (and extra happy faces with Monuments) really shine on the higher difficulty levels. And Spiritual is always a nice trait in itself, with the no anarchy.
Aside from that, Charismatic's +1 happy face (and extra happy faces with Monuments) really shine on the higher difficulty levels. And Spiritual is always a nice trait in itself, with the no anarchy.
Polycrates
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Brennus is my choice for best leader in the game. He really is extraordinarily good, and an amazing headkicker. The trait combo is unparalleled, and they both work very well with each other.
Charismatic is imo the best direct warmongering trait, and the extra happiness is extremely significant in the early game too, in peace or wartime.
Spiritual is my pick for the game's best trait, especially for warmongers, with the ability to switch painlessly between peacetime and wartime civics for maximal empire efficiency. And easy religion switching to play the diplomatic game. Plus cheap temples never hurt.
They work well together in really giving you the most out of theocracy and vassalage, and the happiness helps with big cities or lots of whipping for slavery/caste system/pacifism switches, or quick bursts of drafting.
The Gallic Warrior is surprisingly solid. The "uses copper or iron" is very powerful in itself, not just because there may not be iron in your territory, but because if you have copper and make the effort to road it up, you can be churning out Gallics the very second you hit Iron Working (avoiding the massive lag time and resource cost of connecting iron or even settling a new city for it). If you've already been building a few axemen, a few Gallics will add a massive amount of punch to your axeman rush in that crucial period before defences have been significantly built up. And of course, because there's less attrition and because you're Charismatic and getting lots of promos, there's a lot more momentum behind the rush and you can breeze through more and tougher cities.
The "getting them early" aspect makes a remarkable amount of difference if you're in a position for an axe rush, and gives you the most powerful axe rush in the game.
As for the hill bonus, here's something I posted in another old thread:
The UB is no Sacrificial Altar, granted, but it essentially gives three more mini-UUs (archers, longbows, crossbows) which I think is pretty decent. I think it works well in combination with the UU, to create small forces comprising only Guerrilla II troops (and maybe a mounted unit). You've then got a little combined-arms strike force that can run swiftly over any hilly terrain to quickly get deep into enemy territory and do whatever. For all intents and purposes, a little group of GII troops (especially with archery units thrown in the mix) cannot be removed from a hill (except with serious losses). So hills become massively-fortified staging points deep in enemy territory, from which you can pillage and retreat, cut off enemy supply lines, harass and block enemy reinforcements, heal up your troops, steal workers if youre lucky (or just stop them working), and just generally be a complete and utter nuisance. You can also force them to build/keep more defensive troops in all their other cities, and seriously weaken their frontline defence (or even get lucky and take an inland city or two). It's the combo of the great defence and the fast movement that make it so very nice. And the terrain doesn't actually have to be particularly hilly for it to pay off either.
Remember that Brennus also will have some of the game's most highly-promoted troops, so your guys are likely to have other promos too - a medic to help with healing, some shock promos to take out passing troops, guerrilla III for removing other guys on hills, eg to clear a hilly path for your main force (GIII crossbows are niiiiiiice), a couple of city raiders just to be threatening, etc.
Guerrilla I is really just a nice bit of gravy for your main stack, and you probably won't want to go for GII for most of your gallics and crossbows (although GIII crossbows are excellent against hilly cities - and then frighteningly good defenders of the same). It's the versatility that really makes it shine. Oh yeah, and Guerrilla Gallics upgrade to Guerrilla Macemen too!
Charismatic is imo the best direct warmongering trait, and the extra happiness is extremely significant in the early game too, in peace or wartime.
Spiritual is my pick for the game's best trait, especially for warmongers, with the ability to switch painlessly between peacetime and wartime civics for maximal empire efficiency. And easy religion switching to play the diplomatic game. Plus cheap temples never hurt.
They work well together in really giving you the most out of theocracy and vassalage, and the happiness helps with big cities or lots of whipping for slavery/caste system/pacifism switches, or quick bursts of drafting.
The Gallic Warrior is surprisingly solid. The "uses copper or iron" is very powerful in itself, not just because there may not be iron in your territory, but because if you have copper and make the effort to road it up, you can be churning out Gallics the very second you hit Iron Working (avoiding the massive lag time and resource cost of connecting iron or even settling a new city for it). If you've already been building a few axemen, a few Gallics will add a massive amount of punch to your axeman rush in that crucial period before defences have been significantly built up. And of course, because there's less attrition and because you're Charismatic and getting lots of promos, there's a lot more momentum behind the rush and you can breeze through more and tougher cities.
The "getting them early" aspect makes a remarkable amount of difference if you're in a position for an axe rush, and gives you the most powerful axe rush in the game.
As for the hill bonus, here's something I posted in another old thread:
The UB is no Sacrificial Altar, granted, but it essentially gives three more mini-UUs (archers, longbows, crossbows) which I think is pretty decent. I think it works well in combination with the UU, to create small forces comprising only Guerrilla II troops (and maybe a mounted unit). You've then got a little combined-arms strike force that can run swiftly over any hilly terrain to quickly get deep into enemy territory and do whatever. For all intents and purposes, a little group of GII troops (especially with archery units thrown in the mix) cannot be removed from a hill (except with serious losses). So hills become massively-fortified staging points deep in enemy territory, from which you can pillage and retreat, cut off enemy supply lines, harass and block enemy reinforcements, heal up your troops, steal workers if youre lucky (or just stop them working), and just generally be a complete and utter nuisance. You can also force them to build/keep more defensive troops in all their other cities, and seriously weaken their frontline defence (or even get lucky and take an inland city or two). It's the combo of the great defence and the fast movement that make it so very nice. And the terrain doesn't actually have to be particularly hilly for it to pay off either.
Remember that Brennus also will have some of the game's most highly-promoted troops, so your guys are likely to have other promos too - a medic to help with healing, some shock promos to take out passing troops, guerrilla III for removing other guys on hills, eg to clear a hilly path for your main force (GIII crossbows are niiiiiiice), a couple of city raiders just to be threatening, etc.
Guerrilla I is really just a nice bit of gravy for your main stack, and you probably won't want to go for GII for most of your gallics and crossbows (although GIII crossbows are excellent against hilly cities - and then frighteningly good defenders of the same). It's the versatility that really makes it shine. Oh yeah, and Guerrilla Gallics upgrade to Guerrilla Macemen too!
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
True, I'd forgotten about that little bonus of being able to build Gallics from mere copper. That's quite nice.
And that reminds me, that's one of the things I love so much about Ragnar... those CRIII Berserkers are quickly upgraded to become CRIII Amphibious Grenadiers which pack a very dangerous punch, and can later be upgraded further to CRIII Amphibious Infantry and Mech Infantry. Very nice.
You forget to mention Stable, Charismatic is a very powerful trait, Especially with the Invention fo Military Tradition Technology where I Build a Military City with GG Instructors, HE,WP barracks and Stables swicth to Military Civics (Vassalage & Theocracy) for Level 5 Cavalry and promote them with Combat 1,2,3 Blitz or Pinch...
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
True, I forgot the Stable.
Even more powerful though, if you can reach level 6, is to grab a bunch of combat IV, commando cavalry. Now those are scary beasts - especially in multiplayer.
Even more powerful though, if you can reach level 6, is to grab a bunch of combat IV, commando cavalry. Now those are scary beasts - especially in multiplayer.
True, I forgot the Stable.
Even more powerful though, if you can reach level 6, is to grab a bunch of combat IV, commando cavalry. Now those are scary beasts - especially in multiplayer.
LEVEL 6!?... You'd have to Assign 4 Military Instructors to a city while running both military civics, It'd require 5 GGs in the whole game, the 1st one used to get a level 6 unit.
Barracks + Stables + West-Point + Vassalage & Theocracy + 4 Great Generals
= 3 + 2 + 4 + 4 + 8 = 21XP
And With the Pentagon, All your units would be level 6, if built in that city... scary...
It's probably only be possible most of the time with Cyrus Cha/Imp. I Bet Cyrus could get level 5 Knights, if you got 3 GGs early enough in the game.
Blitz Knights in the middle ages... :S
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
In multiplayer, with gifting, it's far easier to get hold of 4 Great Generals.
Anyway, you don't have to build them to be Commando right out of the barracks (although I must admit that'd be an awesome thing to try to do), you just have to get them near it (2 or 3 GG's should do) and then win a couple of high odds battles.
Anyway, you don't have to build them to be Commando right out of the barracks (although I must admit that'd be an awesome thing to try to do), you just have to get them near it (2 or 3 GG's should do) and then win a couple of high odds battles.
sylvanllewelyn
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I never tried gifting Great Generals before. Always thought spreading out XP's are more efficient, even witht he Civ4 battle system.
But now that you've mentioned it: is it worth all the trouble having Spain in your team to get the Commando for their UU, despite having an unsynergistic trait combination and the slowest starting tech combination?
But now that you've mentioned it: is it worth all the trouble having Spain in your team to get the Commando for their UU, despite having an unsynergistic trait combination and the slowest starting tech combination?
bardolph
King
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Actually, I hadn't thought of that. That's pretty convincing.
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