C3C PBEM: Tomorrow Belongs to me (WWII Europe)
- Thread starter Thrust123
- Start date
pirke
Prince
I am! 
Is there a game starting?
Is there a game starting?
DogBoy
Deity
If the game is starting, I want to be the Krauts!
Thrust123
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 383
Well, here it is, in spite of the flamboyant title, the long awaited beginning of the EUROPEAN WORLD WAR II SCENARIO.
This purpose of this first post is to:
1) Give information about the scenario
2) Recruit players
3) Initiate a dialogue with the players to decide a few things such as the no. of players, any house rules, etc.
******************************************************
1) SCENARIO INFORMATION:
The scenario, designed by El Mencey, can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112678
(Download th files in the second and third post. it contains version in english, including the MP version.
-Turns: 61 monhtly turns beginning May 1940
-Players:
1- Sweden (includes Turkey, Portugal, Switzerland)
2- England (includes USA)
3- France
4- USSR
5- Germany
6- Spain
7- Italy
8- Netherlands (Includes Yugoslavia)
-Alliances: No fixed alliances
WHY THE TITLE: This is the title of quite a famous song from the musical "Cabaret", it is sung by some Hitler supporters before he came to power. The complete (?) lyrics are:
TOMORROW BELONGS TO ME:
The sun on the meadow is summery warm
The stag in the forest runs free
But gather together to greet the storm
Tomorrow belongs to me
The branch of the linden is leafy and green
The Rhine gives its gold to the sea
But somewhere a glory awaits unseen
Tomorrow belongs....
To me!
2) PLAYER RECRUITING
So far we have:
DOGBOY: Germany
LOULONG: France
ROMEOTHEMONK: Any
THRUST123: Prefer Italy, if not try England
RCOUTME: Italy
GNARFLINGER: URSS
RUBBERJELLO:
GWADAMAN:
SEGA FANATIC:
PIRKE:
Summary 8 July: 10 players. "different games will have to be organized, that's no problem. Let's sort out rules/modifications for this one first so that both games are exactly the same rules, etc.
If we choose to have only 5 human players per game, then we are now fully recruited.
The no. of human players in 2 games that are being played over at the Spanish Apolyton forum is 5 (Germany, France, Spain, England and URSS), the rest using the AI.
Personally I think it would be nice to have an Italian player. Perhaps we could do without a Spanish player. Don't know about Sweden and Netherlands.
We need at least 1 more player, but more could be taken, bearing in mind some might have to go with the "minor" powers.
Bear in mind that some of the nations in this game have quite a lot of units and cities, so each turn time can be quite demanding. We will not establish a fixed deadline of turns turnonver, but just bear in mind that it will require some time to do ech turn.
Please sign up if you are interested, stating your preferred nation.
3) HOUSE RULES/COMMENTS?
I have reviewed a little the threads where this scenario is being played at Apolyton and I don't see any special house rules.
I was thinking about things such as what alliaces are allowable, what about Vichy, etc.
We can edit the no. of players and even player order, and even agree to some house rules if necessary, but I really don't want to get into editing geographical feautures of the map (sorry for the Gibraltar issue).
Please expose any comments here so we can discuss, including what no. of human players you suggest, etc.
RECTRUITING IS TEMPORARILY CLOSED NOW
This purpose of this first post is to:
1) Give information about the scenario
2) Recruit players
3) Initiate a dialogue with the players to decide a few things such as the no. of players, any house rules, etc.
******************************************************
1) SCENARIO INFORMATION:
The scenario, designed by El Mencey, can be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112678
(Download th files in the second and third post. it contains version in english, including the MP version.
-Turns: 61 monhtly turns beginning May 1940
-Players:
1- Sweden (includes Turkey, Portugal, Switzerland)
2- England (includes USA)
3- France
4- USSR
5- Germany
6- Spain
7- Italy
8- Netherlands (Includes Yugoslavia)
-Alliances: No fixed alliances
WHY THE TITLE: This is the title of quite a famous song from the musical "Cabaret", it is sung by some Hitler supporters before he came to power. The complete (?) lyrics are:
TOMORROW BELONGS TO ME:
The sun on the meadow is summery warm
The stag in the forest runs free
But gather together to greet the storm
Tomorrow belongs to me
The branch of the linden is leafy and green
The Rhine gives its gold to the sea
But somewhere a glory awaits unseen
Tomorrow belongs....
To me!
2) PLAYER RECRUITING
So far we have:
DOGBOY: Germany
LOULONG: France
ROMEOTHEMONK: Any
THRUST123: Prefer Italy, if not try England
RCOUTME: Italy
GNARFLINGER: URSS
RUBBERJELLO:
GWADAMAN:
SEGA FANATIC:
PIRKE:
Summary 8 July: 10 players. "different games will have to be organized, that's no problem. Let's sort out rules/modifications for this one first so that both games are exactly the same rules, etc.
If we choose to have only 5 human players per game, then we are now fully recruited.
The no. of human players in 2 games that are being played over at the Spanish Apolyton forum is 5 (Germany, France, Spain, England and URSS), the rest using the AI.
Personally I think it would be nice to have an Italian player. Perhaps we could do without a Spanish player. Don't know about Sweden and Netherlands.
We need at least 1 more player, but more could be taken, bearing in mind some might have to go with the "minor" powers.
Bear in mind that some of the nations in this game have quite a lot of units and cities, so each turn time can be quite demanding. We will not establish a fixed deadline of turns turnonver, but just bear in mind that it will require some time to do ech turn.
Please sign up if you are interested, stating your preferred nation.
3) HOUSE RULES/COMMENTS?
I have reviewed a little the threads where this scenario is being played at Apolyton and I don't see any special house rules.
I was thinking about things such as what alliaces are allowable, what about Vichy, etc.
We can edit the no. of players and even player order, and even agree to some house rules if necessary, but I really don't want to get into editing geographical feautures of the map (sorry for the Gibraltar issue).
Please expose any comments here so we can discuss, including what no. of human players you suggest, etc.
RECTRUITING IS TEMPORARILY CLOSED NOW
Attachments
rcoutme
Emperor
I'll join. I want to team up with Dogboy, so I'll take Italy.
Gnarfflinger
Wiseguy in Training
I'll try it. I like the idea of being a facist pri--er, umm benevolent, fatherly dictaror. I also like tanks. That sounds like USSR...
DogBoy
Deity
Ok, I have spent quite some time tonight (way past my bedtime) looking at this scenario. It looks pretty good, but I do have some problems with it. Unfortunately, I have a splitting headache now after looking thru all the screens and it's late. I will have to look at this again tomorrow and make some recommendations when I get home from work tomorrow.
I will give a few comments to spark some discussions:
-Only reliable players that we know.
-Fix the turn order. Why doesn't Germany go first? Nobody is at war yet everybody will attack Germany on the first turn, unrealistic.
-Why is it May 1940 and nobody is at war? By that time Germany owned half of Europe.
-Only need 5 human players to play Germany, France, England, Russia, Italy. Either the AI can be Dutch, Sweden, Spain, or we can double up a few humans. If we double up, we will have to decide who gets what. For example, I think we can all agree that Spain goes to the allies so the French or British player can take Spain. But what about Sweden and Dutch? They could go either way, but by May 1940 they would have to be axis.
-If we do go with AI, need to agree on diplomacy. It would not be right for the German player to ally with Spain on the first turn, very unrealistic.
That's all for now to spark some discussion. I will do some analysis again tomorrow.
I will give a few comments to spark some discussions:
-Only reliable players that we know.
-Fix the turn order. Why doesn't Germany go first? Nobody is at war yet everybody will attack Germany on the first turn, unrealistic.
-Why is it May 1940 and nobody is at war? By that time Germany owned half of Europe.
-Only need 5 human players to play Germany, France, England, Russia, Italy. Either the AI can be Dutch, Sweden, Spain, or we can double up a few humans. If we double up, we will have to decide who gets what. For example, I think we can all agree that Spain goes to the allies so the French or British player can take Spain. But what about Sweden and Dutch? They could go either way, but by May 1940 they would have to be axis.
-If we do go with AI, need to agree on diplomacy. It would not be right for the German player to ally with Spain on the first turn, very unrealistic.
That's all for now to spark some discussion. I will do some analysis again tomorrow.
Rubberjello
Emperor
Is it too late? I'll take whatever is left over...
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
Preferences. Err.... Germany and England have been taken.... err.. France ?
Gwadaman
Chieftain
If you want to play this scenario as realistic as possible then yes I would admit Spain must go to the Allies. (No spanish armies helped Hitler except a few units on the Russian front.) But Franco was a fascist and he was pretty close to Hitler before the end of tne spanish civil war. So it won't be historical but not so unrealistic to see Spain as an ally of Germany.
I'm interested by this PBEM but do you want to play it as realistic as possible?
I'm interested by this PBEM but do you want to play it as realistic as possible?
Sega Fanatic
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2003
- Messages
- 142
If you want me, I wouldn't mind being a minor nation, the Netherlands or something, I'd quite enjoy it actually, as you guys play a fast PBEM. The other two I am in are going quite slow at the moment.
pirke
Prince
I'd like to be a small nation too, don't have the time to get *another* big game started 
Netherlands would be fine (I'm dutch myself), but if Sefa Fanatic wants it, Spain is good too. As long as I'm with the allies this time
Netherlands would be fine (I'm dutch myself), but if Sefa Fanatic wants it, Spain is good too. As long as I'm with the allies this time
Thrust123
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 383
So many people signing up...maybe 2 games will be organized.
Any volunteer to start a second game if there are sufficient players ? (that volunteer would get to choose his nation first!!!)
KEEP A WATCH ON POST NO. 4 because there i will update anything relevant to no. of players, etc. so as not to have things scattered in several posts.
Any volunteer to start a second game if there are sufficient players ? (that volunteer would get to choose his nation first!!!)
KEEP A WATCH ON POST NO. 4 because there i will update anything relevant to no. of players, etc. so as not to have things scattered in several posts.
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
WWII Europe has been long awaited !!!!!!
I can wait and start another one. But I will wait a week or so just to see how things go in the first PBEM. So maybe for the first one you can stay among members of the "zero" group ?
I can wait and start another one. But I will wait a week or so just to see how things go in the first PBEM. So maybe for the first one you can stay among members of the "zero" group ?
Thrust123
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 383
Loulong, I was thinking specially of you when suggesting a second game. I think we can sort things out here first and then you can start a new one as from there, with the exact same rules, or changes , whatever you want.
Perhaps i will have to give priority for this first gamer to the Pacific Veterans, just because we just finished playing a game and we are all guaranteed reliable. But I will help out in whatever to organize the second game for all the new people.
Perhaps i will have to give priority for this first gamer to the Pacific Veterans, just because we just finished playing a game and we are all guaranteed reliable. But I will help out in whatever to organize the second game for all the new people.
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
Got the hint alright then lol
I edited my post while you posted yours. Seem we agree on most things here !
I edited my post while you posted yours. Seem we agree on most things here !
Thrust123
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 383
I'd like to KEEP IT SIMPLE. That means, not going into very lengthy modifications, and having to do as few editing of the map/rules as possible. This is differenet from agreeing to some house rules to apply that are just agreements that don't entail manipulating the scenario software itself.
SOME ISSUES TO DISCUSS:
1) Player order. Germany should go first?
2) Vichy: House rule to establish something like that once 2/3 of mainland French cities are taken by Axis, France has the option to call an armistice and create Vichy becoming neutral...or somethin gin those lines?
3) Alliance rules? ie, can Sweden-Portugal-turkey ever ally with anyone, or just remain neurtal, what about Spain? Should we establich a fixed allkiance from the beginning of France-Uk? What about URSS?
4) NUKES: I suggest no Nukes in this scenario.
5) City Razing: I suggest no city razing.
6) Giving cities to other nations: Could England get a city in URSS, build an airport there and send millions of englishmen and americans to help defende the Russian front? What about Lend-lease though?
SOME ISSUES TO DISCUSS:
1) Player order. Germany should go first?
2) Vichy: House rule to establish something like that once 2/3 of mainland French cities are taken by Axis, France has the option to call an armistice and create Vichy becoming neutral...or somethin gin those lines?
3) Alliance rules? ie, can Sweden-Portugal-turkey ever ally with anyone, or just remain neurtal, what about Spain? Should we establich a fixed allkiance from the beginning of France-Uk? What about URSS?
4) NUKES: I suggest no Nukes in this scenario.
5) City Razing: I suggest no city razing.
6) Giving cities to other nations: Could England get a city in URSS, build an airport there and send millions of englishmen and americans to help defende the Russian front? What about Lend-lease though?
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
Issues (I think the players from both games could vote on these, if not, let me know or disregard):
1) yes (Germany had the offensive, politically and militarily).
2) Sure, if there is no locked Alliance with Britain. On the other hand if mainland France is completely taken and the palace jumps in colonies then it should remain at war.
3) If yes to 2) then no locked alliance albeit it sounds a bit weird.
Maybe two locked alliances : Germany-Italy and France-UK then all other countries can side with any of these alliances and they will be considered winners if their team (at the date of victory) wins. USSR signed a treaty with Germany and they were nearly allies for a while. So it should be free to do what it wants but Germany was anti-communist and should be "forced" to declare war within a certain number of turns maybe.
Spain did not side with Germany because it was exhausted after the civil war but I believe they could side or at least help (luxuries, money) one of the two alliances.
On the other hand I think there should be real Neutrals in this game (Portugal, Seden, Swiss, maybe Turkey) because this would add a dimension to the game (ie Germans in Norway cannot cross Sweden to attack USSR from Finland, etc...) and the Neutrals could play a trade role maybe.
4) I agree
5) "yes", especially if there are no settlers.
1) yes (Germany had the offensive, politically and militarily).
2) Sure, if there is no locked Alliance with Britain. On the other hand if mainland France is completely taken and the palace jumps in colonies then it should remain at war.
3) If yes to 2) then no locked alliance albeit it sounds a bit weird.
Maybe two locked alliances : Germany-Italy and France-UK then all other countries can side with any of these alliances and they will be considered winners if their team (at the date of victory) wins. USSR signed a treaty with Germany and they were nearly allies for a while. So it should be free to do what it wants but Germany was anti-communist and should be "forced" to declare war within a certain number of turns maybe.
Spain did not side with Germany because it was exhausted after the civil war but I believe they could side or at least help (luxuries, money) one of the two alliances.
On the other hand I think there should be real Neutrals in this game (Portugal, Seden, Swiss, maybe Turkey) because this would add a dimension to the game (ie Germans in Norway cannot cross Sweden to attack USSR from Finland, etc...) and the Neutrals could play a trade role maybe.
4) I agree
5) "yes", especially if there are no settlers.
DogBoy
Deity
As for my vote on the rules:
1. Yes
2. Yes (but would need no locked alliances between France/England).
3. Sweden/Turkey/Portugal can remain neutral or ally if they want. Same with Spain. Same with the Dutch. If they ally with one side, they get the win if their team wins. I propose that Russia and Germany should ally at the start of the war, Russia cannot attack Germany unless Germany attacks first, but that Germany must attack Russia before the 10th turn is over with.
4. No nukes.
5. No city razing except for USSR. USSR did have a scortched earth policy and burned many of her cities and crops.
1. Yes
2. Yes (but would need no locked alliances between France/England).
3. Sweden/Turkey/Portugal can remain neutral or ally if they want. Same with Spain. Same with the Dutch. If they ally with one side, they get the win if their team wins. I propose that Russia and Germany should ally at the start of the war, Russia cannot attack Germany unless Germany attacks first, but that Germany must attack Russia before the 10th turn is over with.
4. No nukes.
5. No city razing except for USSR. USSR did have a scortched earth policy and burned many of her cities and crops.
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