Canals and Bridges

Mark Anthony

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
15
Location
South Carolina
I have been playing Civ since CivI (in B&W on a Mac!) some 12 or 13 years ago. I have always been a casual player and had actually not played for quite a few years until finding a copy of CivIII at a discount store for $3.99. Now, I am getting more serious about my Civ playing and am looking forward to CivIV.

Anyhow, about my question. I seem to remember earlier versions of Civ having land bridge tiles wherein a land unit or a sea unit could both move or rest. I think these were indicated by a cluster of small islands or something.

Jump forward to today. It has occured to me that CivIII does not offer such tiles and I am confused as to why. Furthermore, why does the game not allow for the construction of canals and mega-bridges. I can understand perhaps if this is an ability granted through a Late Industrial or Modern Civ Advance that I have not reached as I have yet to finish the game but am instead playing around with it at this time, learning the intrinsics of the game and testing strategies. However I do not think so.

If it is not a part of the game, I must ask why not? Since the Late Industrial age (in the real world, I might add), various civilizations have spanned the San Francisco Bay, Chesapeake Bay, the Florida Keys, the Dardenelles, the English Channel, several straits in Japan and more. Via man made canals, we have connected Lake Erie and the Atlantic Ocean, the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Suez. The Chinese began buiding navigational canals as early as the 5th Century BC.

So, why can't we do it in our Civ games?

I am not talking about some mammoth construction project, but just to be able to link two tiles separated by an impassable (per unit type) pixel. Most of he examples I have do not involve, say, a water tile sandwiched between to land or vice versa. Instead, they are two coastal land tiles who but up against each other with no water tile between them, yet they cannot be connected. Or, two water tiles with (in one example) not so much as a sandbar separating them.

It would be nice to not have to waste a galley to serve as a ferry one side of a strait to another as in points A, B and C below:

Examples.jpg


This spit of land even looks as though it is made of islands, yet ships cannot pass from east to west here.

Land-and-Sea.jpg


If the game can bridge a bay (see below), why can't it bridge a channel? What about chunnel a channel?

Channel.jpg


A solution to making my own landbridges, but this is not always convenient or the best solution

Canal-Cities.jpg


This unique lake is nothing more than a wide river in many places. Surely a bridge or two could be placed here?

C-Lake.jpg


The most frustrating example of all. WHY can't I get a boat from St. Paul to Santa Barbara? There are three (the top most obscred by the cultural boundary) spits of land amounting to not much more than rivers of dirt flowing through a sea -- sand bars even! Why can't ships pass?

Sand-bars.jpg


Finally, here is an example of the game accidentally doing exactly what I want to be able to tell it to do:

Bay-Bridge.jpg


Thanks for putting up with my rant about canals and bridges. Until next time!
 
Mark , Wow what a good first post ! good job !!

Totaly agree with what you say, I think it should go on step further, ( maybe theres a mod out there doing this already, so if there is please tell me ! ) , have super bridges connecting contentents over a number of tiles ? Imagine playing earth map and having a railway from uk to usa yeah !
 
You could make a unit with a movement of 1 that looks like a bridge and float it into place. Give it a trransport capacity of whatever and it would take 2 turns for units to move across it. Best that can be done I think.
 
There are bridges built in civIII. Comes about after construction. It is very subtle. After you build roads, units that can only move one space per turn can now move 3 spaces on a road… except over rivers. If you move over a river before construction, even if there is a road, the move is over. After construction it is assumed that where there is a road, there is a bridge, thus allowing you to move across without loosing the turn.

As for the other things such as canals and mega-bridges, I don’t think the AI would know how to use them, and it could be exploited. For example, the AI does not set up a ferry system, even though it can use the ships.

I guess one way it could work… if it’s possible… is to have a small wonder that would allow workers to change a water tile that separates two land masses to be reworked to allow land units to pass over the water tile. Use the same idea in reverse for canals. It would give the workers something to do in the modern age besides cleaning up pollution. And the AI might actually send a worker or 2 to build it.
 
Dark Russell said:
Actually it is engineering that gives free movement across rivers.

oops!!! :blush: I stand corrected. Should not respond at work. :mischief:

Thanks for the correction. :D
 
In Civ3, a tile is considered to be 100km x 100km (or is it in miles?) so it would be unrealistic to have a bridge spanning that far. Even the longest tunnels aren't that big. As for canals, the game already lets you canal across 100km by building cities strategically, as you've done with St Louis / Buffalo / Houston. That's a fair distance.
Now previous versions of civ let you build cities next to each other, so you could canal further. Okay, we can't do that, but civ3 does have the bonus that units no longer end their move when entering a city, so you get faster movement through the canals that you can build.
But yeah, it would be nice to be able to undertake epic engineering projects. I mean, we all hit late industrial with a huge fleet of workers unemployed after the rails are done. How about 128 worker turns for a tile of canal, and 256 for a tile of undersea tunnel (you'd have to allow workers to do improvements while loaded on a ship) :)
 
PaperBeetle said:
In Civ3, a tile is considered to be 100km x 100km (or is it in miles?) so it would be unrealistic to have a bridge spanning that far. Even the longest tunnels aren't that big.

Yes, but I do not wish to traverse and entire tile of water. Only the distance represented by 1/2 of a tile at most. Look at the following, if you would:

Channel.jpg


If Tile A (the one with the fish) has an eastern coastline and the next tile over to the right (Tile B) has a western coastline and at least 3/4 of Tiles A and B are each comprised of land, why could not a tunnel (in the way of the Eurorail Channel Tunnel) or a bridge/tunnel (such as the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel) span those?

Let us say that each tile represents 100km by 100km as you said. The Chunnel which travels under the English Channel is 50km long. Half of a Civ Tile. I think that is not unreasonable to allow such a Minor Wonder to be constructed. The Chaspeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel is just over 27km. Even if the tiles are actually representative of 100 miles by 100 miles, the solution of a Chunnel would not be unreasonable. At 31 miles, it comes in a just under a third of a tile.

Granted, these would need to be costly in game terms -- to the point that only one, maybe two would be able to be built. But beyond the convenience factor, consider the strategic. Would Hitler have stopped at Dunkirk if there had been a train available?

Hmm. Sounds like a chapter out of a Harry Turtledove novel :)
 
who ever said that 1 tile is 100km x 100km? shurely in a smaler world it represents more and in a larger it represents less.
 
A smaller world is smaller and a larger world is larger. I don't think there is a difference in how much each tile represents when the world size changes.

BTW, it was Firaxis that said each tile was 100x100. ;)
 
Guys ( All except Shujaa ) , Your missing the point !! Its not meant to mirror reality !! Why not have a super bridge spanning a an entire ocean ? After all if you said to Wright brothers in a 100 or so years we will send men to the moon what would they say ?

Bottom !
 
It's just a quirk of the graphics that it looks like a "half-tile". If you turn the grid on or right-click on the tile you'll see that it's all water, at least to the game it is. In the last example in the first post, this is another quirk of the graphics, and the road isn't actually going over any water tiles.
 
Dark Russell said:
You could make a unit with a movement of 1 that looks like a bridge and float it into place. Give it a trransport capacity of whatever and it would take 2 turns for units to move across it. Best that can be done I think.

I still think this is you best bet if you really need to have a bridge. Maybe civ 5 will have these types of constructs. ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom