Cancelling ROP with honour

[Singularity]

I've used a civilization between me and the last remaining enemy cities to transport my 'engine of war'. I gave him a tech and he gave me right of passage. Now I have eliminiated my primary enemy and really want to dominate the rest of the continent ASAP. but my ROP doesn't end before another 17 turns....

Will my reputation take a dive if I declare war a turn before I move my units into his territory? If yes, is there another way to terminate the ROP without loosing rep?

Thx
singu

 

[Charis]

"We wish to extend our thanks and gratitude for you opening up your country to be trampled underfoot as we crushed our main foe. Alas, that leaves YOU as the next foe, and I wish to break our agreement, honorably if possible..."



Alas, yes, it will be a rep hit to break the treaty. The only way out without a rep hit would be for HIM to declare war on you. Now since the best way is to tell his troops to "get out!" and you can't do this with an RoP, that would be tough. Perhaps a tech steal where you got caught? I think that if you move your troops out, then declare war, the rep hit might be less, but I can't say that for sure.

Good luck 'handling' your continent
Charis

 

[Singularity]

I can't steal his tech since he's still celebrating the invention of fire, while I will have electronics in one turn.

My one concern is to keep being the main supplier of science to keep my economy in the green. The other continent is in a deadlock of internal strife as a result of my 'tactical' science trade with them That is worth more than not being able to trade techs for the rest of the game and gathering my continent under one ruler.

 

[Henry_X]

So ,you have spies yet ? Try several spy missions , if caught try to re-plant the spy, that would do the trick, imo. Planting a spy is and getting caught is a great way to start wars without getting the blame.

The best mission to get caught is "expose enemy spy" and in my experience it almost always leads to a war declaration, but it's expensive.

 

[Singularity]

I will try that within certain financial limits... need that gold to get to the next tech before the other civs. BTW, he should be grateful, my workers has built railroads all over his lands - so that my artillery divisions can 'cityleap' quicker into his territory

 

[cromagnon]

It sounds like you're out for Conquest or Domination (maybe not). If so, who gives a flying flip about your reputation?

 

[Singularity]

Bad reputation = no tech trade = weak economy = fewer guns. The trick is to smile to all the other civ's while you kill them off one by one.

 

[DaveMcW]

Just to clarify, civs will GIVE you gold per turn for techs no matter how bad your reputation is. They just won't ACCEPT gold per turn or luxuries if you want something from them.

 

[wilbill]

Originally posted by Henry_X
So ,you have spies yet ? Try several spy missions , if caught try to re-plant the spy, that would do the trick, imo. Planting a spy is and getting caught is a great way to start wars without getting the blame. The best mission to get caught is "expose enemy spy" and in my experience it almost always leads to a war declaration, but it's expensive.

And actually, if you're very far ahead of the other civ in histo, culture, power, etc. he may not declare war, just lower his opinion of you.

 

[Singularity]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Just to clarify, civs will GIVE you gold per turn for techs no matter how bad your reputation is. They just won't ACCEPT gold per turn or luxuries if you want something from them.

Ahh, I thought it impacted the price they payed for the techs.

Thx Dave.

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by Singularity
Ahh, I thought it impacted the price they payed for the techs.

A gracious AI will give you up to 2% better deals than an annoyed AI. So this shouldn't bother you much.

Also note that although DaveMcW's statement is mostly correct, an AI civ will also accept gold per turn or resources from you, but only if what they give is per turn walues as well.

I.e. if you have a luxury for sale and a bad reputation, then an AI will happily pay 10gpt for it (if it's worth that much and the AI has the income), but it will not pay 1 gold.

 

[Stapel]

Wow, 2%!!

Did someone at Firaxis seriously program this? Or are you kiding TNO?

Can it be modified?

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by TheNiceOne

A gracious AI will give you up to 2% better deals than an annoyed AI. So this shouldn't bother you much.

Also note that although DaveMcW's statement is mostly correct, an AI civ will also accept gold per turn or resources from you, but only if what they give is per turn walues as well.

I.e. if you have a luxury for sale and a bad reputation, then an AI will happily pay 10gpt for it (if it's worth that much and the AI has the income), but it will not pay 1 gold.

TNO, I don't think your first statement is the right answer in this discussion. I did a little test yesterday to find out about the effects of a rep hit. A ROP rape cost me about 40% in gpt. The AI was gracious and turned annoyed after my ROP rape with the Celts... But as Gothmog stated: attitude isn't the deciding factor in gpt deals. Reputation is. Here's the link to my test... I didn't test your last statement though, a per turn for per turn deal. That was impossible in my set up.

 

[Effing]

Originally posted by Singularity
Will my reputation take a dive if I declare war a turn before I move my units into his territory? If yes, is there another way to terminate the ROP without loosing rep?

It'll cause one of the most ugly rep hits you can possibly get - either you wait until the deal expires, or you try to make him cancel the deal. Try demanding tribute, or something. If you have espionage, try to infiltrate him (it's good if you fail, gets him angry), and if you have a spy, try to bluntly steal his stuff. He'll get angry, but he won't always go to war with you ...

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by Aggie
TNO, I don't think your first statement is the right answer in this discussion. I did a little test yesterday to find out about the effects of a rep hit. A ROP rape cost me about 40% in gpt. The AI was gracious and turned annoyed after my ROP rape with the Celts... But as Gothmog stated: attitude isn't the deciding factor in gpt deals. Reputation is. Here's the link to my test... I didn't test your last statement though, a per turn for per turn deal. That was impossible in my set up.

First, thankt for the link to your test. I have overlooked it, but found it very interesting. I'll try to make some similar tests myself.

The 2% I refer to is the difference attitude will make, not reputation, but I now see that this wasn't easy to get from my previous post. Do a search for the "AI - human trade revisited" thread to find the exact reason for the attitude effect.

Regarding my last statement, this is something I've seen in all games where I've broken deals where the AI expected something from me for 20 turns, and this even makes perfect sense:
Even if I'm a know deal-breaker, the AI has nothing to lose by giving me 10gpt for a luxury. If I break the deal by attacking me, they lose the luxury, but I lose the gold.
However if they give me 1 gold (or more) for the luxury, they know that I can break the deal so they lose the lucury, but they won't get their gold back, so they will not accept such a deal.