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Cannot handle Shaka @ Deity.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Arilian, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    It seems BnW have two difficulty level.
    The one, where you are on the same continent/close to the Zulu, and when they on other landmass.

    If they conquer the other continent you can still beat them with a lot of RA/science focus.

    But if they are near you, they will attack you, even if you gift them a resource.
    If they attack you, you simply cannot defend with 'no losses' and they can build more impi you can kill. For some reason they have 3-4 promoted impis out of box (is this a new deity bonus?), ranged does not even scratch them.

    If you might have a choke point, or you manage to build a fort chain, you still need to put too much focus on defense to win.

    If you convince them to attack somebody else, they just kill them and they come after you with even more impi. They also have a lot of money all the time, despite having a lots of city, no real income.

    And if you defend successfully even beat them with arty/bombers, somebody else already won the game.

    What do you do against Shaka?

    (I have tried emparor and immortal games too, and while still difficult in immportal, it can be handled)
     
  2. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Well, you certainly don't want to go tradition if you meet Shaka in a close by forest. :D You know he'll come, so DoW him as you meet him and pump archers. Open liberty, drop a city. Pillage him, harrass him, grab his workers, don't let him breathe! And when he begs for peace, push even harder, until he is extinct. He can be dead before turn 70. Tried that?

    I tried that multiple times with different civs on deity. It's much harder to deal with well formed AI army on turn 60. Where as if you start early you can pick them one by one around the area. You have the advantage.

    Later you can GE your NC, if you feel you fall behind too badly.
     
  3. glory7

    glory7 King

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    nice strategy. Good to see that you also love killing your aggresive neighbor with early rush :) (and also catch up sci if needed with GE NC rush)
     
  4. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    I end up winning around t.230-260 by domination with this. No sub 200 dom. runs, like in GK :) Did you get to do super fast domination rushes on BNW deity, glory? If so, how do you optimise for a science % loss of every city. I tend to stop after killing first neighbour, saturate and resume after dynamite, normally.
     
  5. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    I tried that in the Deity (brazil) challange.

    I have capture one city, but he already had 4, and started to come with 3 move 3 promoted spearmens, and my CBs started to die.
     
  6. Falconiano

    Falconiano Prince

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    Citadels.
    Plop 2 near the path he's going to use, -60hp per turn, he won't be able to pillage them.
    In the while you level up your cats to range, then take his cities easily.

    That general rule applies to any warmonger civ really, been doing this since Darius rushes.
     
  7. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    No - it is not applies to shaka. The point is that the +75%vs ranged and the 3 move makes it impossible to apply the general strategy.
    (It indeed works for anyone else.)

    I was acutally able to outtech and beat shaka in deity with Venice, and a chokepoint, but I already had another runaway. And capturing the Zulu cities with arty only made my science rate worse.

    And he did pillage citadels.
     
  8. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Why not kill him early then? I refer to Brazil challenge. I peeked at PrimEvil let's play and the starting location was asking for it. 4-5 unique luxes, good production. Drop couple of cities very quickly, granary and finish him with CB. Flat terrain.. No - brainer, if you ask me..

    Or wait for him to discover civil service and die with glory.

    Sounds like you went after him too late.
     
  9. bradeh

    bradeh Chieftain

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    In all the games I've played so far, Shaka seems to annoy nearly every other Civ extremely early, so I bribe my neighbors and his to declare on him. It hurts my income early but it seems cheaper than trying to deal with him mano-a-mano. I don't really go for domination victories really ever, so this is really the only alternative I've noticed so far. I tried to play nice with Shaka with resources and friendship but he always stabs me in the back.
     
  10. Falconiano

    Falconiano Prince

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    I used it myself against shaka twice already, it works. Just spam arrows to random cities until you pop 2 GGs then plop them and pile 2 cannon fodders into it.
     
  11. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Ok, let me try it again and get back to you :)
    I actually have two save for that.
    Getting a GG however can take ages withouth honor.
    Maybe it worth getting Honor left side for GG and faster double shoot CBs.
     
  12. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I would think so if you are facing Shaka.
     
  13. glory7

    glory7 King

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    nowadays, I mostly played for culture ones - I think I mastered "usual" tradition 1-4 cities play and I also developed joke play that could be valid up to immortal level (liberty + piety, reformation to get sacred sites and spam cities, win t100-120 quick speed)

    Maybe I should play domination games again - I heard that 5% penalty and warmoger hate is critical. I tried one with Shaka liberty and it was so OP ... that movement 3 impi was just crazy and lots of CBs had range upgrade when I was ready to upgrade them to Xbows.

    I guess taking out 1-2 civ with CB or Xbows and rest of them with cavalry-artys would be still a good strategy - and you already showed it!
     
  14. Justice1337

    Justice1337 Sofa King

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    Yeah, Shaka just needs something to do. He bribes very cheaply, most of the time around 6-7 Gold or one Luxury. One of my Diety games as Assyria I kept bribing him with the same two luxes, and he never got tired of it because I was nearly always at war with the same people he was.

    One sign that an AI is not getting along at all with the others is when they have lots of unspent gold and untraded luxuries. Shaka shows these signs every game, but most people take it as a sign that he's running away, then he shows up with 8 Impis and the fear grows. But really, he's a loose cannon of the most volatile kind. I find AI's like Napoleon harder to deal with because when you start close to them, they single you out and DoW you nonstop until they see you drop. The Zulu will agree to war across the continent and will send all their boys over for the slightest motivations.
     
  15. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Tried rush shaka on the Brazil deity challange with 2x100 gold and 20 culture run, and it failed miserably. He defended until he started to pump out 3 promoted spears and GG. I did not even got CB in time.
     
  16. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Umbagungundluvyou
     
  17. SYahoo

    SYahoo Chieftain

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    Pay someone else to fight him or pay him to fight someone else if you don't use honor tree ;)
     
  18. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Yes, bribing him seems to be the best solution.

    Interesting, I have a deity game now with Venice where Marocco built all the wonders I 'covet', while the Zulu was knocking on my door.

    So I restarted the game, and bribed the Zulu to attack Marocco. It worked very well, 100 turn war for 1 lux, but Shaka could not take Marrakesh, just pillaged the surrounding.

    Marocco was still able to build all wonders in a pillaged smaller capital somehow (T57 Petra!)
     
  19. glory7

    glory7 King

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    * Not sure this is a good place to continue this topic - let me know if you want to talk it at a different thread.

    I tried domination with Zulu and it was a total joke. Their UA, UB, UU... all of them are OP. You start with liberty fast settler and get 4 archers before pyramid (you can delay them as nobody is going liberty and even if someone does, he seldom builds pyra early) and do XP farm from barbs till 30XP. DoW nearby non-military civ and steal worker(s), pilliage and repair tiles to earn gold, and farm XP. Settings are standard speed, standard size, pangea.

    You will hit 3-4 CBs with range/logistics promo (only needs 75 XP!) around t90 and you can finish one civ by this time. After this, go for the next victim - Xbows will come and you can get the next cap by t110-115. When this happens, you will have civil service and that's basically all you need to dominate the world. upgrade your veteran spears and get more impi + Xbows.

    Around t120 you get 3-4 range and logistics Xbows and they are basically rocket artillery of medieval era. Impi + well upgraded Xbows just steamroll everything. I got backstabbed when I took too many cities and got DoWed by 3-4 civs, but impis + Xbows ... again, they just kill everything so fast. movement 3, 3 buffalo upgrades impis....

    I took 4 caps at t146 and stopped the game as it became merely time-attack for fast win. I attached one screenshot.

    And my starting was not good at this time - no horse/iron, one stone and one copper, that's it for cap (later found truffle on 3rd ring).

    I am not sure that Zulu XP farming and impi + Xbows rush needs a guide - it's just too OP and straightforward.
     

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  20. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    I only plalyed domination immortal with the zulu, and I am confident, that they are now the best civ for domination. Keshik and Camel archer are still better than impi, but you have impi early, and on the good tech path. I have also used honor, and I had some impis at the end with 3 buffalo promo and 3 terrain, and double attack and city attack. Over 9000!

    The bad thing is that a deity AI does the same to you :) I still have no chance.

    I wonder if you can win a Deity duel VS Shaka with anyone. Maybe Attila, you can get double shooting horse arches before the impis, but I am not sure at all.
     

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