Can't upgrade adepts to mages

[Roghar]

I'm playing just my third game of FFH2, and for some reason can't upgrade my adepts to mages..

I am playing Khazad, RoK. I got sorcery ages ago, have numerous adepts at levels 4 and 5, plenty of cash, and do not have the option of upgrading them..

What am I missing? I was able to upgrade them last game and can't think of what it could be

Dragar

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The dwarves are very distrustful of magic. Adepts are the only Arcane units the Khazad can build (except for the religious hero Hemah, if they go OO). Their upgraded forms are not allowed. This is intended.

 

[kenken244]

The Khazad cannot build magic units past adepts

EDIT: beaten by 0 seconds

 

[Roghar]

Sweet, thank you! That was driving me insane and I couldn't find it anywhere!!

I wish I realised that earlier, have been a fool chasing nodes!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, they still get passive effects. Enchantment, spirit, mind, and earth mana can still be useful. Still, I probably wouldn't build more than 2 nodes of the same type, and would be more willing to trade mana away than usual (to a close friend).

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Rack up the earth nodes and build mines on every hill in your empire. With 3 earth mana you will be a powerhouse & filthy rich.

 

[Roghar]

hmmm.. I was already building multiple earth nodes but hadn't thought about mining hills not in my city reaches.. Although I ahve all the metals so I guess not so important, unless I can trade them

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Having lots of gems and gold gives you a very high happiness limt. Your only limt eventually will be health.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah. But also, other Manas can be good, for example, every Law mana decreases maintenance by 5%. Enchantment gives +1 happy, spirit +5% GPP, etc.

But I usually get only Earth manas for the increased chance of finding resources, and maybe one Water mana if I got desert tiles to make into plains. And remember, wall of stones doesn't replace walls, so having an adept per border city really helps, since culture isn't a strong point of Khazad and their palace gives +20% def per city, they can get 125% def with wall of stones, castle, archery range and walls.

 

[onedreamer]

Having lots of gems and gold gives you a very high happiness limt. Your only limt eventually will be health.

uhm, you're saying that having lots of gems and gold would provide more happiness than having just one gem and one gold ?

 

[Grey Fox]

uhm, you're saying that having lots of gems and gold would provide more happiness than having just one gem and one gold ?

So his statement wasn't true the way he said it but in a way it is. With a high quantity of a single resource you can trade for other resources. And the increase in commerce could also be used to buy resources.

 

[Calavente]

and more commerce allows you to get much more money.. so your vault become overflowing much quicker... thus many happies

so his statement is (almost) correct

 

[onedreamer]

So his statement wasn't true the way he said it but in a way it is. With a high quantity of a single resource you can trade for other resources. And the increase in commerce could also be used to buy resources.

ah ok, I thought I missed something

 

[Roghar]

Is it possible to change a mana node? Overwrite a previous node you have built? If so, it would presumably make sense to focus on Earth early on, then move to Law/enchantment/mind in the later game? (this of course excluding the first level spells you want - I have definitely found Water to be a must for Spring, especially after blight).

Not having done the maths, I assume that for a typical economy, with majority investment in science (say 70%+), the +3% science bonus from Mind is better than the -5% maintenance from Law?

I guess it partially relates to a more general question - are bonuses/penalties in Civ additive or multiplicative? i.e. if I have 100 base research points per turn in a city, and have two +10% modifiers, do I get 120 or 121 research points?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You can only build a mana node over raw mana or mana of the same type. The only way to "overwrite" the previous node it to have it revert to raw mana. This only happens when the mana crosses out of/into your borders. This can be from losing the city in conquest, having rival territory temporarily spread into your and then being pushed out, or a city going into rebellion. Since the Purge of the Unfaithful causes the last one, it can be abused to allow you to switch mana types.

 

[onedreamer]

it can't be really "abused" since it's one time only. I'd rather say "used".
What can be abused instead is building a Beast of Agares.

 

[zxcvbnm]

The boni are additive, so +25% and +50% will result in 175% instead of 187,5%

 

[Caradoc]

What can be abused instead is building a Beast of Agares.

How does that work?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Whenever a Beast of Agares is built the city that builds it loses 3 population and goes into revolt. You could repeatedly build the beasts, build a new type of node, upgrade your arcane units, then build another beast to start the process over again (of course, it could take a while since you have to deal with the revolt. Unyielding Order helps)

(I'm not sure that its true, but I think I heard someone say that the Beast of Agares, despite its nominal hammer cost of 500, actually builds in one turn, with this pop cost and revolt as a the real price. I don't usually want to risk losing 3 population and having a city revolt, so I usually avoid building the beasts. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but when I have built them they did seem to finish faster than I expected.)

 

[onedreamer]

nope, I remember them taking quite some time to build, especially since I tend to build them in crappy cities: I don't want my most productive city loose 3 pop and be 3+ turns in revolt, do I ?

but I'm talking of pre 0.25 though.