Challenge-XVI-03

[elitetroops]

oh, easy :] So the map was not so small, having 456 tiles o_O.

456 is still small, though not quite micro. My best game was with 459 tiles. The micro tier has 370-380 tiles, but they are quite rare. About 1/20 maps it seems.

 

[enKage]

456 is still small, though not quite micro. My best game was with 459 tiles. The micro tier has 370-380 tiles, but they are quite rare. About 1/20 maps it seems.

This is not only the matter of number of tiles. Starting in the center of the continent helps a lot. I think best players will reach pre 500BC date on my map because they can succesfully fight on few fronts. I was rather trying not to have war with more than 1 AI at one time, except the case of dogpile.
I was bordering with 5 AIS before starting conquest and Isabella cut off the whole peninsyla with Justin and Shaka from me, having close borders with them.

Finally I rechead domination after taking neighbours only + 2 Kublai's city. Lincoln 1 city, Kate 3, French 4, Kublai 2, Ragnar 2, Rome 4 cities. With so "enormous empires" fighting simultanously wwith 3 opponents should be easy doable at least from the moment I had 6 cities (OK, not always as all of them had copper or Iron)

 

[elitetroops]

This is not only the matter of number of tiles. Starting in the center of the continent helps a lot. I think best players will reach pre 500BC date on my map because they can succesfully fight on few fronts.

I used to think this, but not so sure anymore. Often this can mean your main army marches to the far edge of the continent, only to turn around and have a long way to the next target. My 425BC game was on a long and narrow continent with me at the end, didn't even meet most of the AI until very late as they were blocked of first by Asoka, then by Shaka. The advantage here was that always after finishing one target, my main army was 1-2 turns from entering the lands of the next target. The first army is the strongest with most experience, building up a new force to attack in another direction takes a bit too long in these super fast conquest games, I think. Ideal would probably be if you can attack in a circle around your capital, with short distance both for main army and for reinforcements.

I think metals make a much greater difference. I saw only one metal unit all game, an axe. Got lucky when I took out Rome so fast with first 2 HA. When he settled the jungle city I sued for peace and got IW, only to find that he had mined iron in capital BFC. Had I waited a few more turns he might have managed to get a praet out. Rags had no metals, both Shaka and Asoka had workers improving their copper as I declared and interrupted them.

 

[enKage]

Ideal would probably be if you can attack in a circle around your capital, with short distance both for main army and for reinforcements.

Exactly, the situation from my game.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

425 AD. Now I see why it's hard to post a specific Turn won, as the Submission system has a Date column but it lacks a Turn column. GOTM submissions seem to have a way to extract the "Turns played" value, so it would be nice if the "HOF submission system did the same and reported that value on the My Submissions page. Where's a suitable spot to post these types of suggestions?


I went with a Chariot -> Axeman -> Horse Archer game, capturing and keeping most AI Cities.

I only settled my second City just before I won the game.

Game highlights include:
1. Just after I declared war on the first AI, he pop-whipped a Spearman in his capital. So, I had to delay warring, as I only had 8 Chariots vs 2 Archers and 1 Spearman, and I hadn't built a Barracks first.

Fortunately, a suicidal Chariot baited the Spearman to come out while another Chariot snuck around the back of that AI's land to Pillage the Copper.

2. India built ALL of the early Wonders in a single City, and India was at the far corner of the map.

Of course, Julius, who did get Praetorians, had all 3 of his Cities culturally-pressed by Gandhi, so Julius' Praetorians easily fell to Horse Archers and a couple of Axemen.

Gandhi ended up having a stack of 10 units, including a mix of Swordsmen, Spearmen, Axemen, and Archers, inside of his capital, so I ended up throwing away more than 20 units to take that City at the end of the game, as I lacked siege units and my economy couldn't handle teching any further.

3. I stayed peaceful with Ragnar, who had expanded to 5 Cities, meaning that I had to kill off nearly every other AI, with only Shaka also still being alive at the end, due to him having a very sizeable army that deterred me from attacking him any sooner than my last target.

Of course enable random personalities here ;]

Hmmm, yes, that tip would have been a good one for trying to "break" the concept of playing with a bunch of tough Leaders, but I didn't think to set that setting.

Just finished my first attempt, and I have now learned my lesson about taking an existing 4000bc and just generating mapfinder saves off it.

You can do that? I thought that the only way for the Regenerate Map button to appear is if you have created a new game and haven't advanced past the first turn of play.

GK was next, then Cathy, about the same time I got Feudalism. Started on the Romans and I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't vassalise! Eventually have a look at the settings and notice 'No Vassals'. WHAT!?!? Now I have to conquer almost everybody the hard way.

Oops, I totally forgot about Vassals. Well, after Currency, my economy was dead in the water due to capturing and keeping so many Cities that I couldn't even finish Priesthood after Currency, at least not until the last turn of the game.

Vassals could have been of great help.


Cho-ko-nus would have been nice to have, too, but perhaps not at the cost of some of the AIs also getting Longbowmen. Only Catherine made it to Monarchy in my game and she died a swift and horrible death soon thereafter, before it could get traded around (before Monarchy got traded around that is; the death part got traded around quite effectively).

 

[elitetroops]

You can do that? I thought that the only way for the Regenerate Map button to appear is if you have created a new game and haven't advanced past the first turn of play.

Mapfinder command (ctrl+shift+G) works with any T0 save.

Well, after Currency, my economy was dead in the water due to capturing and keeping so many Cities that I couldn't even finish Priesthood after Currency, at least not until the last turn of the game.

How many cities did you have to capture and keep? Sounds like you might have had quite a large map, I never experienced any economical problems in any of my games.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Mapfinder command (ctrl+shift+G) works with any T0 save.

That's a good tip. Does anyone know what happens when I select a random option, such as a random opponent or a random factor related to the type of map used? When a map regenerates, do the values that were initially random keep rotating or do they stay locked as the values that were randomly chosen the first time?

How many cities did you have to capture and keep? Sounds like you might have had quite a large map, I never experienced any economical problems in any of my games.

450 Land value
23 Cities at the end
28 Unit Cost
3 Unit Supply (this number fluctuated a lot)
269 City Maintenance Cost
78 Civic Upkeep
45 Inflation
423 Total Expenses

Since all Wonders were built by Gandhi (other than The Great Lighthouse by Ragnar in the last few turns of the game), with Gandhi being far away and thus I didn't really benefit from the Wonders, I had to build my own Monuments and even then, it looks as though only 3 of my Cities had expanded their Cultural Borders a second time.

 

[elitetroops]

That's a good tip. Does anyone know what happens when I select a random option, such as a random opponent or a random factor related to the type of map used? When a map regenerates, do the values that were initially random keep rotating or do they stay locked as the values that were randomly chosen the first time?

Random selections stay locked when regenerating. This is true for opponents and map factors, and also for personalities with random personalities.

450 Land value
23 Cities at the end
28 Unit Cost
3 Unit Supply (this number fluctuated a lot)
269 City Maintenance Cost
78 Civic Upkeep
45 Inflation
423 Total Expenses

Since all Wonders were built by Gandhi (other than The Great Lighthouse by Ragnar in the last few turns of the game), with Gandhi being far away and thus I didn't really benefit from the Wonders, I had to build my own Monuments and even then, it looks as though only 3 of my Cities had expanded their Cultural Borders a second time.

Interesting to compare. I had:

24 cities
9 Unit Cost
0 Unit Supply
269 City Maintenance Cost
58 Civic Upkeep
6 Inflation
342 Total Expenses

Biggest difference is inflation, as your game lasted longer. Seems you also had a lot of extra units at the end.

However, 10 of my cities were settled in the last five turns. Expenses were probably a lot lower before that. Didn't capture any wonders either (except oracle). Stonehenge is nice to have, but you don't need monuments in any case. Switch to caste a few turns before winning (after whipping necessary settlers) and artists can give you the first border pop in all your cities. My capital was only city that got 2nd border pop.

Looking at your writeup, I'm not so sure if chariot rushing helped your game. Building 8 chariots will for sure delay you getting HBR. Also, you probably put many of your forests into chariots pre maths, which means less HAs later. Building a couple of chariots to steal workers and prevent AI from hooking up metals can be nice, but otherwise I'd focus on getting HAs asap and saving as many forests as possible for those. This game I went maths before HBR and declared with HAs 1440BC. Had both barracks and stables in capital by then. Don't think I chopped anything before maths, all forests saved for units.

 

[Todelotti]

Finished with 450 AD.

I had such a "Micropangaea" map mentioned above (Toroidal high sea solid shore line map with 366 land tiles). The downside was: no horses at all on the map and no close Copper. I decided to go for Iron Working after Bronze Working to see if I can get Iron at least or if I can resign. IW revealed Iron in my capital's BFC, so I gave the game a try.

I was playing with maximized civs (10) and the empires on such a small map are really pressed. Monty had the most cities (4) - one was apparently culture flipped from Shaka who had only 1 city - the two Indian leaders had 3 cities each, all the others had 2 cities. I never saw a single barb during the game.

Fighted the first 3 wars with Swords and Axes (plus Cats later) and the last 3 wars with a mix of my remaining Swords/Axes and fresh Elepults. The 7th civ (Gandhi) capitulated after capturing the first of his three cities. This kicked me - together with a border push of another conquered city one turn later - beyond the Dom threshold.