Chaos

[seZereth]

EDIT

Chaos Warrior and Knight for Chaos Undivided. i sugest using them as Royal Guard(?!) and Heavy Knight with reduced numbers, casue of texture size. any comments welcome.
here is the download and here is the download for the tilean Venetor, wanna see both in the next version
Added the Khorne Berserkers for the pleasure of the Chaosgod file is in DB

ok, as i am burning to design some more units for chaos (!), i wanted to ask for an army list... what units do they need!? i am definitely going to design some more normal chaoswarriors (and the chaosknight), but i dont think archers or pikemen really fit, so what to replace them with!? and how do we want to implement the different chaos fractions?! i think it will be too complecatet to split it up into religions (thats for a scenario). so we could actually replace for example a militiaarcher with a nurgle chaoswarrior, the militiaswrdsman with a khorn berserker or what do you think!? will it be better to make those units special and not available at the same time, thus replacing a militiaarcher by a marauderarcher or a beastmenarcher`?!

i would like to see some more marauders, perhaps as the militia and the chaoswarriors as higher age units, (royalguard and replacements for crossbow and longbow and stuff like that)!!!

So, whats your opinion?

and @neener: we need some beastmen (at least heads )

 

[DutchJunkie]

I got a relaxing day .. and because Chaos is one of my favorite fractions i'll give you my two cents ..

Somewhere in the timeline players should devote to Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle or Tzeentch. This will be done as following: When a certain tech is researched, a faction specific building will appear. When this building is built, the player will be devoted to the appropriate Chaos God. When no building is built, the player will be Undivided.

FYI: A specific faction can also built Undivided units!

// Ancient
Worker: Chaos (human) Worker
Ancient Warrior: Marauder
Ancient Spearman: Marauder Spearman
Ancient Archer: Marauder Archer
Ancient Axeman: Marauder Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Marauder Swordsman
Shaman: Marauder sorcerer
Horse-Archer: Marauder Horseman
Fast Troops: Warhounds
Catapult: ?
Chariot: Marauder Chariot
Monster I: Chaos Spawn
Scout: Maruder Scout
Galley: ?

// Age of Magic
Citizen: ?
Militia: Chaos Warrior
Light Knight: Marauder Horseman
Hedge-Wizard: Chaos Sorcerer
Bolt-Thrower: ?
War Chariot: Chaos Chariot
Monster II: Daemon Prince
Explorer: Chaos Furies
Caravel: ?

// Age of Discovery (factions are possible)
Royal Guard: Chaos warriors of (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh)
Heavy Knight: (Undivided) Chaos Knights (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh)
Wizard: Exalted Sorcerer (Undivided) and/or Sorcerer of (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh)
Khorne: Flesh hounds, Spawn of Khorne, Bloodletters
Tzeentch: Screamers, Spawn of Tzeentch, Horrors of Tzeentch
Nurgle: Nurglings, Spawn of Nurgle, Plaguebearers
Slaanesh: Daemonettes of Slaanesh, Spawn of Slaanesh, Daemonettes on Slaanesh Steeds
Cannon:
Galleon: ?
Frigate: ?

// Mechanical Age
Khorne: Bloodhowler (improved Bloodletter), Exalted warrior on Juggernaut (is steed ..)
Tzeentch: Flamers of Tzeentch, Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch (is steed ..)
Nurgle: Plague Elemental (or something .. nurgle has no other option .. so improvise ), Plaguewarrior on steed (a rotten something?)
Slaanesh: Master of Deception on Slaaneshi Wurm (is steed ..) (http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/7/), Slaanesh elemental (no options for slaanesh either)
Ironclad: ?

Monster III:
Udivided: Two-headed Chaos Dragon
Khorne: Greater Daemon of Khorne (Bloodthirster)
Tzeentch: Greater Daemon of Tzeentch (Lord of Change)
Nurgle: Greater Daemon of Nurgle (Great Unclean One)
Slaanesh: Greater Daemon of Slaanesh (Keeper of Secrets)

Nurgle should have a chance to spread the Plague. Slaanesh should have a bigger 'deception bonus' (withdrawel chance?) and more speed (first strike?). Khorne should be stronger than average and tzeentch should be about many MANY magic thingies.

special characters:
- Crom the Conquerer (undivided)
- Archeon, Lord of the end times (all fractions)
- Galrauch, The First Chaos Dragon (tzeentch)
- Arbaal The Undefeated (khorne)
- Azazel, Prince of Damnation (slaanesh)
- Aekold Helbrass (undivided)
- Egrimm van Horstmann (undivided or khorne?)
- Dechala The Denied One (slaanesh) (awesome model!)
- Scyla Anfinngrim Chaos Spawn (beastmen like .. better in beastmen army)

Chaos players should be pointed towards destruction of everything. Surrounding nations could have chaos spawnings or mutilations (when culture is partially chaos on that tile).

oh oh .. time is up again ..

 

[Duke van Frost]

I think the different Cult-techs that we have should enable a wonder that allows the building of the units of ONE chaos god (we would then need a new tech for khorne also).

We would need a new buildingclass for these wonders (for example "chaos god") and set <iMaxPlayerInstances> to 1 for this in BuildingClassInfos - very simple solution and would be the best IMO.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I thought of Khorne just being the "basic" Chaos. The Cult techs I mainly planned for spells(Khorne doesn't provide spells to his followers and the Empire has to study many techs to gain diverse spells so Chaos should too imo) but we can use them as prereqs for specialunits as well naturally

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ok, another civ development, i like these, its fun

I think that the easyest way to implement different chaos factions (note the spelling, its FACTIONS not FRACTIONS as in maths ) is to make the 4 chaos gods, the chooseable leaders for the civ. so you can choose to be Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch or Nurgle. then each leader would have their own favorite civics, and behaviours etc. we could also make each one have different UUs.

what do you guys think?

Here i have copies information on each Chaos God from the Religeon thread:

THE CHAOS GODS

SLAANESH, Lord of Pleasure

Spoiler :

Description: Slaanesh is the Lord of Pleasure and the Chaos God dedicated to all manners of perversions and sexual debauchery. He smiles upon hedonistic pleasure, the overthrow of all codes of decent behaviour and all forms of perverse pleasures of the flesh. He is pleased when his followers explore all their fantasies and joyous when it is particularly perverse. All sensations must be explored, including pain, agony, fear and terror.

Physically Slaanesh is portrayed as a bisexual humanoid, being male on the left side and female on the right, with an unerring and unnatural beauty not present in any of the other great Chaos Gods. Golden hair flows from his head like a cascading waterfall and from this mane of gold sprout two pairs of shiny horns, decorated in many fantastic and elaborate jewels and precious stones. In his right hand he holds the magical jade sceptre, which is his greatest and most prized treasure, and he wears a beautiful mail shirt fringed with velvet and this is usually encrusted with some of the most amazing jewels that a mortal could desire.

Symbol: Followers of Slaanesh wear somewhere about their person the symbol of Slaanesh, though not openly in the towns and cities of the Old World. However, they will openly wear elaborate jewellery bearing erotic motifs. Cultists will wear robes which are often opened to leave the right side of the chest uncovered, a requirement of many of the rituals involved in Slaanesh's worship. Pastel and electric shades are the chief colours with white used occasionally. Followers of Slaanesh often where these colours along with their art of clothes, which always tend to be of high quality. The number of Slaanesh is six and cult meetings are always this number or in multiples of it.

Worship: The worship of Slaanesh is especially popular among the nobility of the Old World, notably in the cities of Bretonnia, the Empire, and parts of Estalia and Tilea. How many people of the upper classes have alters to the Lord of Pleasure hidden somewhere in their homes? How many merchants conduct business before an orgy, where every vice and whim is explored? How many moral upstanding people have been murdered during these acts of debauchery? Whatever the case, the worship of the Lord of Pleasure is the most widespread of all the Chaos Gods and their are many cults. They are also popular with university students and there are many potential recruits there for any cultist or Chaos Champion.

General: The aims of the Slaaneshi cults are not like those of most other Chaos Gods. They do not especially have an interest in political power - although the sheer size of some cults, including many important politicians, merchants and nobles, makes this a matter of opinion - and certainly very little, if any, interest in martial power. That isn't what the worship of Slaanesh is about and it certainly is not a cult of warriors. Indeed, some followers of Slaanesh will even finance, or own, orphanages or mental institutions in order to prey upon the vulnerable members of society and abuse them as is their sadistic way.

The followers of Slaanesh maybe seen as a comical bunch of sexual deviants, but in truth they are a lot of sadistic, masochistic, hedonistic, self-indulging, perverted torturers. Few outsiders survive a cult meeting as they are typically tortured in unspeakable ways, with their last vestiges of life dedicated to the Lord of Pleasure before they are gleefully put to death.

KHORNE, The Blood God

Spoiler :

Description: Khorne, known universally as the Blood God or The Harvester of Souls, is the most violent of all Chaos Gods for he epitomises anger, hate, violence and wanton destruction. To Khorne, whether they be friend or foe, all must be slain so that he may consume their souls and have more bones for his brass throne of blood. All blood that is split by his followers make Khorne more powerful. But Khorne is never satisfied, until all the bones of mortals lie beneath his brass throne.

Khorne is depicted as muscular bestial-faced humanoid, hundreds of feet tall, seated on a vast brass throne, which in turn rests on a mountain of blood-stained bones. He is clad in elaborate plate armour, adorned with skull motif patterns, and his great helm is winged with only a portion of his snarling face visible beneath.

Symbol: The symbol of Khorne is a skull, but the most popular symbol is an X-shaped rune with a bar across the bottom. His followers favour red, black and brass in their dress and armour, the hues of blood, death, and Khorne's own armour respectively. The number of Khorne is eight, or multiples of it, and this is reflected in cult meetings and the size of battlefield units.

Worship: The worship of Khorne is most popular with warriors. Most beastmen and Chaos Warriors follow the Blood God and these are some of the only Khornites to be found in the Old World because the god is not given over to subtlety and has no interest in politics. There are no temples to Khorne, the battlefield is where he is worshipped and where the most blood can be split. He is also popular among the goblinoid race, including Half-orcs, because his thirst for blood and wanton violence particularly appeals to their mentality.

Khorne looks in favour upon those who kill their friends and allies, and those who wreak the most havoc and destruction. All increases the Blood God's strength. He is displeased if one day goes by without one of his followers taking a life, as such something terrible might befall the indolent disciple.

General: Followers of Khorne are all warriors and there are few organised cults in the Old World dedicated to the Blood God's religion. He is worshipped only in the act of killing, and his followers often fight as individuals, ignoring bonds of alliance and common faith when it suits them to do so. They are some of the most zealous followers because they even see their own death as an offering to Khorne.

But there is another side to Khorne. He also epitomises the warrior's sense of honour and martial virtue. A Khornate Champion may not always be a frenzied berserker, he may just as easily be a proud warrior eager to prove himself to his god. In time, however, he will gradually see his comrades as pawns to use as he pleases as the last vestiges of his humanity begin to ebb away.

Unusually for a Chaos God, Khorne despises all forms of magic. He is a visceral god, the Chaos Power that embodies action, not thought. Slaughter in all its forms is the way of Khorne. Spellcasting is a process of the mind, not the sword's edge. The harvest of blood for the Blood God is of paramount importance, and those rituals and spells that would seek to quantify and control the forces of Chaos are an anathema to him. Khorne is a practical god of battle, not a god of effete intellectual pursuits. His 'magic', such as it is, reflects this character. Khorne followers use magical swords and Daemon Weapons to kill in Khorne's name. Khorne's unnatural marvels are his gifts to his followers; the use of such weapons is his followers' delight. Spellcasters that are found by Khorne's followers most of the time are slaughtered, but some are not and instead are taken to the Forges of Khorne where they become slaves for as long as they shall live, enchanting weapons and armour. Their eventual deaths temper the Khornate blades as they require blood for the quenching, and souls to stoke for the furnaces.

TZEENTCH, The Lord of Change

Spoiler :

Description: Tzeentch is the greatest magician of the Chaos Powers and is the most enigmatic of the Chaos Gods. Magic is one of the most potent of all agents of change, and those who use it are amongst the most ambitious and the hungry for power. His sympathies lie directly with the Forces of Chaos as demonstrated by the distortion of natural law through the forces of mutation and magic. Tzeentch feeds upon the need and desire for change that is an essential part of human nature. All men dream of wealth, freedom and a better tomorrow. All these dreams create a powerful impetus for change, and the ambitions of nations create a force which can change history. Tzeentch is the embodiment of that force.

The skin of Tzeentch crawls with constantly changing faces, leering and mocking the onlooker. As he speaks, these faces sometimes repeat what he says with subtle but important differences, or provide commentary which throws doubt upon his words. This makes it very hard to interpret exactly what Tzeentch is saying. These lesser faces appear and disappear quite quickly, but the actual head of Tzeentch does not change. His puckered face sits low down and has no neck, so that it is hard to distinguish his head from his chest. His curving horns appear appear to spring from his shoulders rather than from his head. The firmament surrounding Tzeentch is heavy with brooding magic. It weaves like liquid smoke about his head, forming subtle and interwoven patterns. Forms of places and people appear in the smoke as Tzeentch's mind contemplates their fate.

Symbol: The colours of Tzeentch are pink, puce, and/or purple and are often used in subtle combinations, in everyday clothing. For more formal rituals and meetings, however, the robes are usually most garish and strident in both pattern and colour. The number of Tzeentch is nine and his cultists will gather in this number or multiples of it.

Worship: The Cult of Tzeentch is easily the most widespread in The Empire. He is particularly popular with mutants, but his cults are just as likely to be found in the towns and cities as they are in the forests. These groups are all committed to the subversion and overthrow of The Empire, and have an extensive network of informants and spies - some of whom occupy very high places indeed. The activities of this cult are shielded by its hostility towards the cult of Nurgle: who would suspect that those who are most zealous in the persecution of Nurgle's followers are actually Chaos cultists themselves? The size of any particular group of cultists varies from place to place, the largest ones being located in the great cities or deep in the forests. They meet wherever and whenever is expedient, being much more organised and circumspect than the followers of Slaanesh. Notable Tzeentchian cults are the Purple Hand, the Red Crown, the Withering Eye, and the Fire Grail, and the most powerful of these is the Purple Hand.

General: Tzeentch is not content to merely watch the drama of history as it unfolds. He has purposes of his own, although what they are it is impossible to say for sure. His intentions are complicated, his schemes highly sophisticated and incredibly long-term. Perhaps he has plans to overthrow the other Powers, or to extend his dominion over mortal realms. Whatever his ultimate purpose, he seeks to achieve it by manipulating the individual lives of men, thereby altering the course of history. By offering power and magic he can recruit influential people to his cause, and affect the lives many more at a single stroke. However, few of Tzeentch's plots are simple, and many may appear at first contradictory to others, or against Tzeentch's own interests. Only Tzeentch can see the threads of potential futures weaving forward in time like tangled balls of multicoloured wool.

The eternal enemy of Tzeentch is the other Chaos God called Nurgle. Because Tzeentch stands for change and the creation of new things, and life, this is the very opposite of what Nurgle stands for: decay and the defiance of despair and hopelessness.

NURGLE, God of Pestilence and Decay

Spoiler :

NURGLE, God of Pestilence and Decay
Description: Nurgle is also the Lord of All because all things, no matter how solid and permanent they seem, are liable to physical corruption. Indeed, the very process of construction and creation foreshadow destruction and decay. The palace of today is tomorrow's ruin, the maiden of the morning is the crone of the night, and the hope of a moment is but the foundation stone of everlasting regret.

Nurgle is the Great Lord of Decay and the Master of Plague and Pestilence, his carcass is riddled with disease and infestation. He is a gigantic figure bloated with decay, disease and all imaginable kinds of physical corruption. His skin is greenish, necrose and leathery, its surface is covered with pockmarks, sores, and other signs of infestation. The inner organs, rank with decay, spill through the ruptured skin and hang like drapes about the girth. From these organs burst tiny creatures called Nurglings which chew and suck upon the nauseous juices within. Such foulness represents the truth of the universe, of decay and the end of all things. Yet in character Nurgle is neither deathlike nor morbid. Like his Daemons, Nurgle is motivated by all the trivial human enthusiasm which drive the living.

Symbol: Nurgle's colours are sickly greens, yellows and browns - usually worn in simple, geometric patterns. Worshippers often find it expedient to wear neither a symbol or nor the alternative badge of the silhouette of a fly, but most go hooded - either to disguise the deformities caused by Nurgle's Rot, or to inspire dread and doubt. The number of Nurgle is seven and his cultists will gather in this number or multiples of it.

Worship: Like Khorne, followers of the Plague God are relatively rare in The Empire, but a few do exist, practicing their filthy rites within the depths of the sewer systems of the major cities. Such groups rarely number more than fifty, and are largely isolated from groups in other cities. From time to time, the city or provincial authorities will mount an expedition to exterminate the depraved worshippers of Nurgle, but since such efforts must stop short of burning down their cities there are always a few who escape to replenish their numbers. Notable Nurgle cults include the Plague Chalice, The Foetid Fly, and The Maw.

General: The living know that they will die, and many know that they will live with disease or other torment, yet they drive this knowledge into a corner of their minds and keep it pinioned there with all manner of dreams and activity. Nurgle is the embodiment of that knowledge and of the unconscious response to it, of the hidden fear of disease and decay, and of the power of life which that fear generates. Nurgle is the hope born from the inevitability of death and decay.

Nurgle is the eternal enemy of Tzeentch, the Lord of Change. Nurgle and Tzeentch draw their energy from opposing beliefs. While the energy of Tzeentch comes from hope and changing fortune, that of Nurgle comes from defiance born of despair and hopelessness. The two Great Powers fight each other on the battle grounds of the Chaos Wastes and they oppose each other in more subtle ways, the complex politics and intrigues among mortal men.

Champions of Nurgle, like the Plaguebearers, find disease fascinating and when confronted with one they hastily scribble it down in a book or scrap of parchment (more to allocate a victim a disease than anything else.) Like the Plaguebearers and Great Unclean Ones they try to bring a little order to Chaos with a natural enthusiasm to organise and achieve.

 

[neener]

The most obvious train of thought that strikes me is to ask how it works in the real Warhammer game? I never played Chaos, and none of my friends did either, so I don't know. Do you have to choose one God, or is it common for Chaos players to field multiple units from each God? If so, should we try to copy the official approach?

and @neener: we need some beastmen (at least heads )

No problem, that should be very easy to do.

 

[El Loco Mono]

so from thoses leader options, I guess Chaos undivided is not going to be implemented, no?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well, Im not too sure about the EXACT Chaos rules, so we may have to wait for DJ to say, but i think you can only choose one Chaos God. Buts as you say ELM, there is definately Chaos Undivided, we could use Archaon as their leader, seeing as he is blessed by all 4 Chaos Gods. he could have a small section of each other gods power, say Khorns strong units, Tzeenthes magic users, nurgles plague bearers etc etc. but as i say, we should wait for DJ to say something on that

 

[Duke van Frost]

I wouldn&#180;t change the leaderoptions.

I&#180;d just do it as I said before, make wonders available with the different chaos-cults techs (beasts could as well be added as Khorne should be). The player is only allowed to build one of these wonders and by deciding for a wonder he decides upon which faction of chaos he will continue the game as.

The other techs could still be researched (each will add some units that can be build because of the tech and not because of the wonder - mainly mages from the different factions and one other unit maybe also should be allowed by each tech).

That would allow for less leaders, make the player able to choose his faction in the game (a cool new and still unique option for chaos IMO). And it won&#180;t make the other chaos-cults techs useless.

And allows for some nice variety in the chaos armies (because of the mages, core units available from the start.

The wonders could also be implemented as free buildings that a player gets when researching his first chaos-cults tech. Whichever he researches first that ones wonder he gets for free an so chooses his faction.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

We currently have Chaos undivided with Archaon as Leader and I prefer to keep it this way. I don't want gods to be Leaders. I see no problem fielding units of more than one chaos god for chaos civ. They will just suffer animosity in this case.

 

[neener]

Of the ideas suggested so far, I think I prefer Duke's, personally.

 

[Duke van Frost]

undivided, one chaos god, beasts plus mortal or deamon. Ok, that&#180;s new to me. But if we do it that way with leaders we would need:

Khorne, deamon
Khorne, Mortal
Tzeentch, deamon
Tzeentch, mortal
Slaanesh, deamon
Slaanesh, mortal
Nurgle, deamon
Nurgle, mortal
Undivided, deamon
Undivided, mortal
Beasts of chaos (I don&#180;t think there is deamon or martal for them)

That would make 11 Leaders in total, if we stick with the deamon/mortal thing - quite a long list

6 Leaders if we only choose to have the different gods, undivided and beasts.

I still like my idea with the wonders better, each tech could then allow for two wonders - one for the deamon version and one for the mortal version of the different chaos factions (except for beasts, which would only get one)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Well i think Duke does have a point here, we dont want there to be too many leaders, but i am still not sure about the wonders idea, i would need to actually try both ideas out in game before i could decide.

If we go with the Chaos gods, and Archaon, that gives us five leaders to choose from.this will make the varying alot simpler for the casual / new players, however its nothing new and dosnt add any oomf to the chaos civ.

if we go with the Wonders to determing which Chaos god the civ follows, it would make playing chaos a bit more confusing, and might take a while to get used to and to understand, especially for new players. however this would definately add something new and original to the mod, and would probably make more experienced players want to try it out.

i think maybe the Wonders is a better choice, but we should try to make it a simple as posible.

(i know, i just arguewd with myself, i seem to be doing that alot lately )

 

[seZereth]

well, i would go with wonders (in form of temples) too, cause it is a bit more flexible and seems to fit in well.

added picture and link to db

 

[DutchJunkie]

Hello

The choice of leader of the army determines the rest of the army. An undivided leader can only have undivided units. A leader of a certain faction can only have units of that faction and undivided units. Olleus is right about the mortal/daemon rule to determine which troops are rare, special and core.

IMO the latter shouldn't be implemented in the game. I say to be most realistic: there are more men than Daemons and therefor men are core and daemons special. That way the Basic Chaos army will be Chaos undivided (regular marauders, chaos warriors/knights, spawn etcetera).

Sorry Lama but i think it's better to choose faction (thanks for that .. ) ingame than by leader. I think it should be aligned with the research of particular techs. For example: when the Chaos player researches magic (common tech!), it can devote to Tzeentch by building a shrine (or temple or altar or whatever). Or by researching it (I prefer the latter) That way it can build Tzeentch units and get Tzeentch improvements. For the other factions:

- Khorne; when researching something to do with fighting .. like military training?
- Slaanesh; something to do with deception, art, beauty ..
- Nurgle; something to do with fighting disease (well .. the don't fight it but embrace it ..)

All should be somewhere at the same spot on the tech tree. So when I researched Magic I can research Tzeentch next. That way I become a follower of Tzeentch fot the rest of the game ..

That's my idea about Chaos.

and .. what's the nice thing about Archaon? It's the only leader that can have all specific units. He is undivided and all factions in one. IMO it should be nice to make a building devoted to him, let's say Archaon's Lair. The city that builds it can build all chaos units available! .. only a small suggestion ..

Extra: fluffwise the Chaos Gods don't like each other .. only once in a dwarven lifetime they come together to fight the world instead of each other. That is the reason why there should be different factions in the first place ..

hope this can be of any help ..

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Ok, now im converted, i think we do exactly what DJ said, but instead of only researching a tzeentch tech (for example) after researching Magic, just make a new wonder avaliable.

Eg:
Research 'Magic' -> unlock Tzeentch wonder called 'Hall of Change' (or something)

Research (some tech to do with Health, disease)-> unlock Nurgle wonder called 'Hall of Plague' (or something)

Research 'Military training' -> unlock Khorne wonder called 'Hall of Blood' (or something)

Research (some tech to do with deception, art, beauty ) -> unlock Slaanesh wonder called 'Hall of Lust' (or something)

So i think a combination of Duke and DJ's ideas would be good, and then just keeping Archaon as the leader.

 

[DutchJunkie]

Allways nice to hear you agree

 

[DutchJunkie]

updated my post above btw ..

 

[El Loco Mono]

How is the idea of Chaos mutations to champions (or units with high XP) hoping to be implemented, if at all?

 

[seZereth]

added followers of Khorne to the first post, please dont forget to add them in any way to the next patch

and mutations could be included as an event giving a random normal promotion (+ movement, + strenght) etc...