Choosing City Production

[Zaarin]

Agree about city-states too. How would you implement stateless minorities?
Would they just be enhanced barbarians and tribal villages? Because my idea for Civ 7 is that tribal villages can eventually form city-states just like barbarians through their own clans.

In ES2, every civilization starts with a minority population. It honestly wouldn't be too hard to do the same with historical minorities for civilizations, even ancient ones (e.g., Kassite minorities for Sumer or Chaldean minorities for Babylon; Etruscan or Sabines for Rome; Libyans for Egypt; etc.). Stateless minorities could also be something that dynamically appear in your empire, comparable to the migration of the Romani into Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries, the Jasz in the 13th century, or the Eastern European Cumans from the 11th century on. (Romani, Jasz, and Cumans all being good possibilities for stateless minorities, incidentally, though TBH Cumania isn't a horrible idea for a civ, either.)

 

[BuchiTaton]

I see POPs, Ethnicity and Nomad mechanic (usefull for early game) as part of the same system. Like this:
> POP are the basic core mechanic of the game, they have identity parameters like Ethnicity, Religion and Class (farmer, warrior, etc.)
> All main and minor civs start the game with a TRIBE unit that can settle and turn into a VILLAGE (camp), but these villages can also migrate and turn back to tribes. In others words an one tile unit/infrastructure that have some city-like basic functions. These tribe/village can have a small number of POPs and when settled can even growth to produce more tribe/villages, armies and develop techs.
> Playable civs can growth villages to cities at Ancient Era (or even better you need to growth a city to reach Ancient Era!).
> Minor (non-playable) civs would either want to also turn on city states as fast as possible (like Elamite or Olmec), others would be mainly settled as villages (like Celt or Miao) while others would be nomads moving a lot in their tribe form (like Scythian or Comanche).
> Minor tribes/villages would give you Barbarian Clan like interactions, for example hire mercenaries.
> Once subjugated (by force or diplomacy) you can take direct actions to turn their villages on new cities or accept their POPs inside your previous cities. Each ethnicity is linked to bonus, unique units, techs and resources.

 

[Zaarin]

I see POPs, Ethnicity and Nomad mechanic (usefull for early game) as part of the same system. Like this:
> POP are the basic core mechanic of the game, they have identity parameters like Ethnicity, Religion and Class (farmer, warrior, etc.)
> All main and minor civs start the game with a TRIBE unit that can settle and turn into a VILLAGE (camp), but these villages can also migrate and turn back to tribes. In others words an one tile unit/infrastructure that have some city-like basic functions. These tribe/village can have a small number of POPs and when settled can even growth to produce more tribe/villages, armies and develop techs.
> Playable civs can growth villages to cities at Ancient Era (or even better you need to growth a city to reach Ancient Era!).
> Minor (non-playable) civs would either want to also turn on city states as fast as possible (like Elamite or Olmec), others would be mainly settled as villages (like Celt or Miao) while others would be nomads moving a lot in their tribe form (like Scythian or Comanche).
> Minor tribes/villages would give you Barbarian Clan like interactions, for example hire mercenaries.
> Once subjugated (by force or diplomacy) you can take direct actions to turn their villages on new cities or accept their POPs inside your previous cities. Each ethnicity is linked to bonus, unique units, techs and resources.

There are some really good ideas here, but some of it feels too complicated and specific for Civilization. Also, as much as part of me wants it from a strategic viewpoint, I'm also leery of attaching bonuses directly to ethnicity. It would add interesting strategic play into having an ethnically diverse empire, but it direly runs the risk of wandering into ethnic stereotype territory.

 

[BuchiTaton]

I know it's not realistic but I think ethnicity should just be tied to a certain civilization to make things simpler, as in ethno-national groups. That is in game American, Indian, and Canadian ethnicities would be the same as being either Aztec, Korean, or Japanese.

This remind me.
What I want is at least 2 or 3 "Indian" civs instead of the regular India. If not at least more City States based on Indian kingdoms. But if even that is difficult what about a Indian civ that have the unique feature that their cities could have each one their own ethinicity, so you have cities that are Sindhi, Bihari and Tamil. Of course each one could give some form bonus.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This remind me.
What I want is at least 2 or 3 "Indian" civs instead of the regular India. If not at least more City States based on Indian kingdoms. But if even that is difficult what about a Indian civ that have the unique feature that their cities could have each one their own ethinicity, so you have cities that are Sindhi, Bihari and Tamil. Of course each one could give some form bonus.

That definitely could work. Probably one of the best civs that it could work for, sorry China.

I'd also like to add in addition to ethnicity maybe each one could also get some sort of bonus based off of different religions as well.

 

[BuchiTaton]

There are some really good ideas here, but some of it feels too complicated and specific for Civilization. Also, as much as part of me wants it from a strategic viewpoint, I'm also leery of attaching bonuses directly to ethnicity. It would add interesting strategic play into having an ethnically diverse empire, but it direly runs the risk of wandering into ethnic stereotype territory.

Well in some way playable civs and city states also do this, because many of them are highly linked to the ethnic part and not always about the leader or the state. Even religions kind of do this on game.

Anyway there is the option to turn a plain bonus to say "Traditions" a tech like element that could be accessed from the ethnic group and one reserched gives your their unique unit, building or resource. That way the bonus is the cultural tradition not the people itself.

 

[Zaarin]

That definitely could work. Probably one of the best civs that it could work for, sorry China.

I think India could certainly benefit from what @BuchiTaton described. China, land of the Hundred Yue, is certainly also a multiethnic state, but I'd use a Civil Service Academy (Shuyuan) to incorporate populations from minor civilizations into China like in the design I posted before.

Well in some way playable civs and city states also do this, because many of them are highly linked to the ethnic part and not always about the leader or the state. Even religions kind of do this on game.

Anyway there is the option to turn a plain bonus to say "Traditions" a tech like element that could be accessed from the ethnic group and one reserched gives your their unique unit, building or resource. That way the bonus is the cultural tradition not the people itself.

Yes, that would certainly work. Actually, it reminds me a little of what Crusader Kings III is doing.