Citizen Honors?

[Strider]

Abstain:
To hold one's self aloof; to forbear or refrain voluntarily,
and especially from an indulgence of the passions or
appetites; -- with from.

Abstain:
To be undecided..

There are many definitions of abstain in the english language, as there is for any word. It just depends on which one you decide to use.

 

[Ashburnham]

Yes, but none of them define Abstain as "no".

 

[Strider]

Yes, but none of them define Abstain as "no".

Yes, but there are several which define them as "Undecided" or "Don't care." It all depends on a persons point of view of what it means, and I personally, have always though of it as undecided vote (which is how many people think of it during elections), and I will not throw away those votes, but I won't make it easier to get an honor either, so no seems the only logical conclusion.

The demogame does not have anything within it's laws saying what "abstain" is suppose to be defined as. So it remains, to simply be the individuals decision.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I'm gonna let you take it from here, Ashburnham. Best of luck, and keep your hands away from the cage.

 

[Black_Hole]

Yes, but there are several which define them as "Undecided" or "Don't care." It all depends on a persons point of view of what it means, and I personally, have always though of it as undecided vote (which is how many people think of it during elections), and I will not throw away those votes, but I won't make it easier to get an honor either, so no seems the only logical conclusion.

The demogame does not have anything within it's laws saying what "abstain" is suppose to be defined as. So it remains, to simply be the individuals decision.

but the ratifacations to the constitution dont use abstain votes as no votes, so why break tradition/common sense?
Strider u have 3 options:
1. Add the abstain votes to yes votes
2. Dont use the abstain votes
3. Add the abstain votes to no votes

Which seems most logical?
This is a major reason we amended article I, because abstain votes were being counted as no votes... That clearly states that the WOTP want abstain votes not to count as no votes

 

[Provolution]

Well, it is too soon to give out medals, we need to see the game in its completeness.

 

[Black_Hole]

Well, it is too soon to give out medals, we need to see the game in its completeness.

although this is a good idea, it makes the honors matter less
this is because for example:
you get an honor in trade, it would be nice at the trade elections to say "Hey I have been proven in this department, look at my honor"
It makes the honors seem worth more

and DZ, Im still afighting

 

[Strider]

but the ratifacations to the constitution dont use abstain votes as no votes, so why break tradition/common sense?
Strider u have 3 options:
1. Add the abstain votes to yes votes
2. Dont use the abstain votes
3. Add the abstain votes to no votes

Which seems most logical?
This is a major reason we amended article I, because abstain votes were being counted as no votes... That clearly states that the WOTP want abstain votes not to count as no votes

I have many more options than that.

Article I was changed to make abstain votes over important issues not count as no, as there has been many problems with getting anything done in the pass DG's. However, this is not an important issue and it will remain extremely hard to get an honor.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Abstain is mentioned in the Constitution once and the Code of Laws twice.


In the Constitution, abstain has no effect on the procedings, except to garner enough votes to make quorum.

2.  Ratification of Amendments to the Constitution 
                  shall require each of the following:
                a.  A poll which is open for at least 96 hours, which 
                    states the text of the proposed new section(s), 
                    the text of the section(s) being replaced, and 
                    posing the question in the form of yes / no / 
                    abstain.
               [b] b.  A 67% majority of Yes votes over No votes, Abstain 
                     notwithstanding.[/b]
                c.  A total number of votes greater than or equal to 
                    2/3 the census current at the start of voting on 
                    the amendment, dropping any fraction therein.
                d.  The Amendment poll must first be posted as a 
                    "proposed poll" in the discussion thread created 
                    for the Amendment. The proposed poll must exist
                    in the discussion thread for 24 hours prior to the 
                    Amendment poll being created. This gives adequate
                    time for review and changes.

In the Code of Laws G.2 Abstain is so ill-considered that, based on the wording here, it can gain the most votes and still allow a Yes vote to prevail:

CoL G.2 - Confirmation Polls
A. Confirmation polls are used to challenge the appointment
of a citizen to an elected office. Any citizen may
create a confirmation poll, should one not already exist.
This poll must be created within 24 hours of the
appointment, and ask the question "Do you approve of the
appointment of <citizen name> to the office of <office
name>?", with Yes, No and Abstain option. This poll is
to be private, as it is a form of an election. The poll
will run for 2 days. [b]At the end of the time, if a
majority of the citizens vote "No", the appointment is
overturned. Any other result approves the appointment.[/b]

The final example leans Strider's way. In this case, it is specifically stated that 55% of all votes are needed to pass or alter a law. In this case, Abstain carries some weight.

CoL I. Code of Laws Amendments

1. Altering the Code of Laws requires the proposed change to be presented in a
   discussion thread. When discussion dies down, a proposed poll must be posted 
   at the bottom of the discussion thread and remain there for at least 24 
   hours for review.  During this period, some form of a "Second" and a "Third" 
   must be obtained from at least two citizens other than the bill's author. 
   During this period of review, if any changes are made, the 24 hour review
   period starts over at that time and all "Seconds" and "Thirds" are lost.

2. Once the review period ends, and a "Second" and a "Third" obtained, the
   author of the proposed change may request a Judicial Review, by posting 
   in the Judicial thread. Having passed Judicial Review, the proposed poll
   may be posted in the Poll sub-subforum. The poll must remain open for 72 
   hours.

[b]3. A quorum of 37% of the active census is required for the poll results to be 
   valid. 55% (dropping fractions) of those voting must approve of the proposed 
   change for it to be admitted to the Code of Laws.[/b]

So, the jury is still out. I will back down on my criticism, but I still think that your decision is misguided, Strider. It would be foolish of you to declare victory over me, however, just because you can swear without getting banned.

 

[ravensfire]

DZ,

I beg to differ on your analysis. The meaning for "Abstain" needs to be considered within the context and purpose of the poll.

For example, the Confirmation polls treat Abstain as a non-negative vote. The context and purpose of the confirmation poll is that the candidate is presumed to be acceptable, and that to strike down the appointment, a strong negative vote is required. Thus, the negative votes must outnumber all other votes.

For the Citizen Honor polls, my question is should we presume that these awards are difficult to attain, and that few shold be given out? Or, are they more common place, and easier to earn? If the former is true, I would base the approval on the percentage of positive votes compared to all. If honors are difficult to attain, those making the case for the honor should be able to persuade the undecided (abstain) that the honoree is worthy. If the later is true, I would base the approval on the percentage of all non-negative votes. This places the burden upon those opposed to the honoree to show that they are not worthy.

Regardless, this is a confusing process and a thinly veiled popularity contest for most people. Such matters ought to be considered at the end of the game, not in the middle.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Goonie]

Question :

How did Strider get picked to lead this?