City Improvements - Where to build?

[AznWarlord]

I'm the kind of player who builds improvements in every city possible, and I know it drains my gold because of maintenance. That's probably why I always a) Lose to the impossibly large military of my opponents or b) get so bored I quit.

So I'm trying to change. I know Barracks are a must for you major cities and Courthouses are a must for most cities. And you gotta have the temples to keep the people happy (lux takes too much from sci). So what about the rest? Where should I build marketplaces? Where my above statements incorrect?

PS: I also know walls are crap.

 

[Aabraxan]

First of all, I have to disagree about building temples for happiness. Build them for culture if you want, but happiness is better controlled by the lux slider. You can't "turn down" temples. You pay the upkeep whether you need the happiness or not, unlike the lux slider.

As far as some of the others go, here's some recommended reading: Multiplier Buildings: A Practical Primer. Hope this helps.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Or get luxuries, if you don't think your economy can keep up with the luxury slider.

 

[Twonky]

As a rule of the thumb I would say: the fewer improvements you build, the more successful you are. By success I mean winning early and overcoming your opponents early - other ideas are common, too.

The problem with building city improvements is not only the maintenance, but also the time and shields you invest in them. This gives the AI the time to grow as well and strengthen its military, and you do not want that typically.

Giving general advice is always a problem, as every game is special in so many ways. For a standard game, I´d still like to make a suggestion. Try to play a game where you only build one or two granaries in food rich areas to produce a steady flow of settlers and workers. The first ring of cities, say number 3 to 6 or so, build barracks, then units. All other cities produce workers and settlers or regular units if those are really needed. Do not build any other improvements at all. When you have assembled a noteworthy number of units, get to your nearest opponent and attack.

I promise you´ll be surprised how well that works!

 

[rysingsun]

Courthouses are a must for most cities.

they are?

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Courthouses are generally a good thing to be built if they pay for themselves. Specialist farms don't need them, but most cities will want to have them to keep corruption/waste down.

 

[gmaharriet]

The "rule of thumb" I've been given, which seems to work quite well, is to build courthouses in towns that are between 50% and 80% corrupt.

 

[AznWarlord]

First of all, I have to disagree about building temples for happiness. Build them for culture if you want, but happiness is better controlled by the lux slider. You can't "turn down" temples. You pay the upkeep whether you need the happiness or not, unlike the lux slider.

As far as some of the others go, here's some recommended reading: Multiplier Buildings: A Practical Primer. Hope this helps.

I've realized that now, I used to build temples to increase my boundaries in newly captured cities so they don't turn, but Libraries are much cheaper and give 1 more culture. And that link you provided, I must have missed it because I checked the War Academy before posting.

The problem with building city improvements is not only the maintenance, but also the time and shields you invest in them. This gives the AI the time to grow as well and strengthen its military, and you do not want that typically.

Giving general advice is always a problem, as every game is special in so many ways. For a standard game, I´d still like to make a suggestion. Try to play a game where you only build one or two granaries in food rich areas to produce a steady flow of settlers and workers. The first ring of cities, say number 3 to 6 or so, build barracks, then units. All other cities produce workers and settlers or regular units if those are really needed. Do not build any other improvements at all. When you have assembled a noteworthy number of units, get to your nearest opponent and attack.

I promise you´ll be surprised how well that works!

For the granaries, I usually have two in most games - my capital and my primary (my capital is rarely my strongest city, there's always a more resource abundant one I find later). As for barracks, I prefer having my units heal fully after every turn, but I've got to try this strategy soon.

For every other improvement, I build markets in cities that make at least 5 gpt and a library for cities that give at least 8 science. I also strongly believe in courthouse for every city, to me, every shield counts (I usually gold rush them so no shields are wasted.).

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . And that link you provided, I must have missed it because I checked the War Academy before posting.

It's not in the War Academy.

I also strongly believe in courthouse for every city, to me, every shield counts (I usually gold rush them so no shields are wasted.).

If you have CivAssistII, you can use it to check what effect a courthouse will have on corruption. Even when every shield counts, some cities are so corrupt that a courthouse doesn't salvage any shields and just costs you gold. Courthouses seem to have a "sweet spot" between ~50%-75% corrupt where building them makes sense. Below that, you probably don't need a courthouse. Above that, they don't do enough good to justify it. A 90% corrupt city that produces 1 shield per turn quite likely will produce only 1 spt after you build a courthouse, too. In that case, there's no return on your investment.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

I've realized that now, I used to build temples to increase my boundaries in newly captured cities so they don't turn, but Libraries are much cheaper and give 1 more culture.

Libraries are onlly cheaper if you play a Scientific civilization: the base costs are 80 Shields for a Library and 60 for a Temple.

 

[AznWarlord]

Libraries are onlly cheaper if you play a Scientific civilization: the base costs are 80 Shields for a Library and 60 for a Temple.

Hmm, didn't notice that. I think I was using Persia (Indus, Sci?).

It's not in the War Academy.

I noticed this one after I clicked on it. And for the CH, I don't usually build them in cities I capture, which are the most corrupt.

 

[Aabraxan]

Hmm, didn't notice that. I think I was using Persia (Indus, Sci?).

Iv you're playing C3C, yes, Persia is Ind and Sci, so that would explain the library cost.

I noticed this one after I clicked on it. And for the CH, I don't usually build them in cities I capture, which are the most corrupt.

I use CA2 to decide where to build mine. I usually only build them in semi-core cities. My core doesn't usually need them and (obviously) my specialist farms don't, either.

 

[Lexicus]

Improvements are bad? That's something I haven't really thought of. I usually play on Regent, and most of my cities that aren't hopelessly corrupt usually have almost all the available improvements by the middle of the medieval age. My economy is usually doing fine at that point.

 

[Aabraxan]

Like all things Civ, it depends. Improvements are not inherently bad, but may be bad for your empire, depending on where you build them and why, as well as your chosen victory condition. As an example, look at temples. They're necessary for cultural victories, but I've gone games on end without building one. And in many games, I'll only build one or two, usually just to claim a fish or a whale. That's because I usually play for conquest or domination. You just have to weigh the return on investment.

 

[AznWarlord]

Strangely, improvements are bad for the economy . Just like forced labor .

 

[Whoman69]

The thing that hasn't been discussed in the city improvements is their effect on increasing the cultural sphere of influence around a city. This is especially important for border towns, newly acquired enemy cities, even to make sure the other civs don't build a city right next to yours, inhibiting your ability to grow. Also without a larger cultural influence cities cannot support themselves at larger sizes.

 

[Aabraxan]

But I can increase that cultural sphere influence with cannons, cavalry and extra settlers, too. As long as tiles are within my cultural boundaries, my citizens can work the tiles. My core is surrounded by enough territory inside my cultural boundaries that I don't need to increase my cultural borders to work the tiles. When you get way out into the hinterlands, I don't have very big cities, anyway.