Civ Discussion - Shawnee

bengalryan9

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We have three more exploration age civilizations up for discussion, and next on the list are the Shawnee. The Shawnee are a diplomatic and economic civ with a starting bias towards navigable rivers. Their associated wonder is the Serpent Mound, which gives a base +4 influence as well as +3 science and +2 production on any unique improvement in the settlement. You can unlock them by playing as the Mississippians, as Tecumseh, by improving 3 hides, or by being suzerain to two city states. They automatically unlock America and Mexico in the modern age.

Their unique ability is Nepekifaki, which gives all settlements adjacent to a navigable river +2 food on river terrain, but gives cities that are NOT adjacent to a navigable river -10% food.
Their unique military unit is the Kispoko Nena'to, a swordman replacement that gets +1 CS for every unique empire resource.
Their unique civilian unit is the Hoceepkileni, a missionary with +1 movement that does not end movement due to rivers.
Their unique infrastructure is the Mawaskawe Skote, which gives a base +4 food as well as +1 gold for each adjacent resource, but it cannot be built next to another example.

Shawnee Civics:
Wiyehi Simekofi - unlocks the Mawaskawe Skote, Serpent Mound, and the Bread Dance tradition. At mastery it gives +1 settlement limit and gives the UI +1 culture for each city state you are suzerain of
Miyaska Latoweki - unlocks the Kakawfe Pafkotaweta tradition and gives +2 gold for each trade route you have while 3 endeavors are active, and at mastery gives +1 resource slot to the capital per allied city state
Telwatiki - unlocks the Helikhilenawewipe tradition and allows you to support other leaders wars 3 times instead of 1, and at mastery gives +2 influence as well as gives the Kispoko Nena'to +1 CS per positive war support
Maleki Kintake - unlocks the Takesiyake Yepepoki tradition and gives +2 food on farms and camps

Shawnee Traditions:
Bread Dance - +4 culture to all farming towns and +4 food to all fishing towns
Kakawfe Pafkotaweta - every time a storm, flood, or volcano provides fertility this age receive +1 culture and +2 gold. Improvements, building, and districts are not damaged by storms.
Helikhilenawewipe - +50% influence towards initiating the Befriend Independent Project
Takesiyake Yepepoki - cities receive +2 production on plains, tundra, and desert tiles

What are your thoughts on the Shawnee? Are they strong, weak, or just right? Any interesting approaches or strategies you like to utilize when playing as them? Which leaders or other civs make for good pairings with them? Were these the hardest civic and tradition names for me to type up yet?
 
I enjoy the Shawnee as they mesh well with my play style. They work well as peaceful builders with a bunch of allied city states, which is exactly what I want to do. Serpent Mound's bonus fits well with this as well.

They are somewhat map dependent in that you need your cities to have navigable rivers to avoid the malus, but I would point out that the malus ONLY affects cities and not all settlements (while the bonus applies to ALL settlements that meet the criteria).

The knock against the UI will be that it's best in spots where you'd rather build districts but it still has it's place IMO. You won't always be able to build districts where you want to and these can fill those spots pretty well.

I don't know if this is a kit that is necessarily going to wow you like some others but they are somebody that I know I will pretty much always have unlocked and I can usually fall back on them and do well if I don't get any better unlock options.
 
I also enjoyed my (single) game as Shawnee (with Tecumseh, having picked Mississippians in the Ancient era) because it matched my playstyle - my settlements grew steadily, and my boosted infantry provided an almost impenetrable defense against invasion. It helped that for historical flavour I like building my cities on navigable rivers, and that I'm an obsessive independent power befriender.
 
I found it pretty hard to have many settlements built adjacent to navigable rivers in antiquity and not going Songhai in exploration. Both civs focus on navigable rivers, but those free treasure convoys beat Shawnee bonuses on the spot. Not to mention most of the maps require you to settle on islands in exploration, so Shawnee penalty to settlements not on navigable rivers is quite painful.
 
Their UI is funny. it gives way more Culture than it's supposed to, but because you often go into the Shawnee from a Civ with a tile improvement (Mississipians or Han), you don't build too many of them anyway.
 
We've gotten to another enjoyable Exploration Civ!

The Kispoko Nena'to gets crazy fast if you have a couple of other CS strength buffs. Easily one of the most impactful UUs.

One problem is that their malus/bonus to navigable rivers makes it a choice between them and Songhai... And since Songhai trivializes/makes reliable the economic legacy path, the two civs are in competition.

The Unlocks they lead to are very unsatisfying too, with quite icky implications to be honest.

A fun civ, definitely undermined by civ switching and the legacy path systems.
 
I found it pretty hard to have many settlements built adjacent to navigable rivers in antiquity and not going Songhai in exploration. Both civs focus on navigable rivers, but those free treasure convoys beat Shawnee bonuses on the spot. Not to mention most of the maps require you to settle on islands in exploration, so Shawnee penalty to settlements not on navigable rivers is quite painful.
The malus only applies to cities, not settlements, so your island towns are just fine (they just won't get the bonus). If those island settlements are fishing villages (which they usually are), Bread Dance will make up for them not getting the bonus, too.
 
Their design is a bit in a weird place. They have this malus for not being on navigable rivers, but other than their ability (which is not that great, to be honest), they don't profit that much from navigable rivers. Quite a few of their abilities require influence to make really good use of, but they have nothing to generate influence.

So if I navigable rivers, I would probably play someone else, nevertheless. They synergize really well as a followup to Greece, but Greece is not really known for its navigable rivers. So most of the time, I just have to deal with the food penalty.

With their broken UI, their culture generation can be absurd and they are the strongest exploration civ. Without that broken UI, they are still part of the extremely strong Greece-Shawnee-Siam city state build, but hey are kinda the weak link in there and you would take them mostly, because there are not many other good city-state options in Exploration.
 
Their design is a bit in a weird place. They have this malus for not being on navigable rivers, but other than their ability (which is not that great, to be honest), they don't profit that much from navigable rivers. Quite a few of their abilities require influence to make really good use of, but they have nothing to generate influence.

So if I navigable rivers, I would probably play someone else, nevertheless. They synergize really well as a followup to Greece, but Greece is not really known for its navigable rivers. So most of the time, I just have to deal with the food penalty.

With their broken UI, their culture generation can be absurd and they are the strongest exploration civ. Without that broken UI, they are still part of the extremely strong Greece-Shawnee-Siam city state build, but hey are kinda the weak link in there and you would take them mostly, because there are not many other good city-state options in Exploration.
I think the Nav Rivers just acts as a guide for which settlements you want to turn into Exploration cities (and possibly where you relocate the capital to.)
 
The Shawnee malus doesn't really come into play. You play them ONLY if your Antiquity capital is on a navigable river, and then are able to switch your capital to another Navigable River Settlement. You never take the Silk Road Legacy reward that keeps your Cities as Cities. You want your non-river settlements to become/remain towns.

So it's not really a downside imo. The actual downside to playing the Civ is that the bonuses you rely on the most (the extra culture on the Mawaskawe Shkote and the bonus strength on the Kispoko Nenato) do not carry over into Modern. There's a steep drop in both power and culture generation, and one that the Shawnee Traditions can't easily plug. Playing a strong leader and/or Antiquity Civ is so important if you want to be Shawnee, just to ensure you don't immediately fall behind in Modern.
 
I think the Nav Rivers just acts as a guide for which settlements you want to turn into Exploration cities (and possibly where you relocate the capital to.)

I think the Songhai bonus is too strong that if I'm going for a pure which civ is best, I would pretty much always take them over the Shawnee if I have more than a couple settlements on a navigable river. I think the game I picked for the Shawnee yeah was one where I ended up with most of my cities not getting the bonus, but yeah, in the end, it was a little more about guiding where to go in the new world and after transition.

The UI I guess is broken in the same way the other plots that get bonus per CS - you end up with like +1 culture per CS per UI in the town, so if you have 4 suzerains and 3 of the UI in your town, they get 12 culture each. I really wish they could fix that bug... but otherwise, reading the descriptions, it does make me want to try out the Shawnee again. I'm not sure they're the best exploration civ, but they have a lot of bonuses and can be fun to try to get the most out of them.
 
I have very little to say about Shawnee; I haven't played them much as their kit's never hugley spoken to me. I've always thought of them as the designated city-state-spam civ, though in reality that's a much less defining part of their playstyle than Greece or Siam. The city state stuff is strong; I just don't care for it. Outside of that, if I had a nav-river-heavy empire I'd have a hard time being persuaded not to pick Songhai over Shawnee, and their UU and UI aren't anything huge to write home about.

They're not bad by any means; it's just that the best aspects of their kit cater to a playstyle that isn't really my cup of tea.
 
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