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Civ VI vs. Europa Universalis

MrDoubleG

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
24
Location
Switzerland
Hi all,

I was wondering how Civ VI might compare to Europa Universalis? Civ V seemed to be far from the EU complexity, so do we expect Civ VI to close that gap at least a bit?

MrDoubleG
 
The two games could not be more different -- you might as well ask how Poker compares to Bridge. Both require a 52-card deck and careful thought and analysis to play well, but the similarities pretty much end there.
 
EU is Grand Strategy. Civilization is 4X. It's not a very good comparison. Certainly the two may have things they can learn from each other, but I think trying to say one is better or worse than the other is fruitless.

If anything, I'd say VI is closing the complexity gap with past entries in the Civ series, like III and IV. But it's not very likely it'll be comparable to Paradox's Grand Strategy games in terms of complexity. It's not meant to be.
 
One of them is a 4x game, the other is a history simulator, they have vastly different gameplay, turn based and real time, vastly different goals, it is like comparing eu to the homm series, largely pointless. But see how many eu fans will chime in just to trash civ simply because it is not that complex, and how many civ4 fans will chime in just to trash civ5.

For some people the complexity of eu was not an advantage but a burden, it felt like playing a colorful version of excel. Also many people mistake complexity for difficulty and value winning a more complex game higher. Tastes are different.

Edit: Acken is right, complexity without depth.
 
complexity without depth sounds like it defeats the purpose of complexity, like you get the cons and not the pros. well for sandbox purposes I guess that may be quite alright (I love sandbox games)
 
The main difference to me is the designers of Civ care if you ever learn to play their game. Whereas EU seems to take pride in making you feel completely overwhelmed with overlapping concepts.

Some people have compared EU to an Excel spreadsheet and while I can see that, to me it feels more like someone putting you in the cockpit of a submarine and just being like "Ok drive this." EU is a game that requires training to play, not so much because it is really that deep, but because it will take days to understand what anything is or even which buttons are important.

50 hours into the Civ series I knew enough to make strategic decisions.

50 hours into EU 4 I knew what some of the buttons did.
 
Apples and oranges mate, can't really compare the two because they are different games aimed at different audiences and they have deeply different gameplay.
 
so EU would be a submarine simulator!

Haha. Well, EU would never state anything so clearly. The philosophy of that series seems to be if you can understand it without spending hours it's broken and needs to be made more complex. Truly the 86 button TV remote of video games. And the only game I have ever resorted to watching YouTube videos just to understand what I'm even supposed to be doing.
 
Hi all,

I was wondering how Civ VI might compare to Europa Universalis? Civ V seemed to be far from the EU complexity, so do we expect Civ VI to close that gap at least a bit?

MrDoubleG


EU4 is a sandbox game of a grinding conquest variety. It serves it's purpose. It's nothing whatsoever like Civ and isn't overly complex when you get right to the heart of it. If you want complexity, then Victoria II is what you really want. Civ is a 4x game.
 
YouTube videos introduced me to Civ. Won't hear a bad word said against them :king:


Nothing wrong with YouTube videos per se, it's that for Civ you probably watched them for strategy ideas vs EU where it's like "Ok what am I supposed to be doing."

The bulk of my EU games consist of watching the screen and doing nothing, because I only grasp about 20% of the interface the tutorial bothered to talk about.
 
Nothing wrong with YouTube videos per se, it's that for Civ you probably watched them for strategy ideas vs EU where it's like "Ok what am I supposed to be doing."

At first it was precisely that as I'd never played TBS before. However, a couple of 30 minute vids is all you need to know the basics of TBS/Civ5 mechanics. After that you watch vids to see how experienced players do it. Most of my Civ learning now comes from playing and reading (the relevant) threads on here.
 
EU is much comparable to most arpgs, and stands as a perfect display of why diablo is the most successful. Almost every other one is unnecessarily overcomplicated with adding tons of features that end up mattering very little if any.

So yes, EU is a simulator where you attempt a bowling championship while trying to drive a submarine, while you are blindfolded and have to sing Sinatra songs by heart.
 
I started very early on EU and have played all the iterations, although not recently.

The main problem, to me, is less the complexity and more the sense that they have never satisfactorily escaped the sense that it is all about changing the color of the map. My guess is that the Civ players who like EU the best are likely the ones who also play Civ that way.

As someone already posted, EU is also more of a history simulator. Nothing wrong with that, but in my mind that conflicts with the "color the map" goal.

The other thing about being a history simulator is that the game is a little misleading when it comes to your options as a player. In a sense, you are back in some long-past year with all the options that the leader of that country had... But not really, because various events, options, and modifiers are only there if you have the country that eventually went a given direction. Play Portugal and key things will arise allowing you to expand into unexplored territory -- but less so if you are, say, Sweden.

In my mind, though, an extremely important difference is this: EU is trying to do something that is innately impossible. They are trying to re-create the situation of rulers in an era when rulers did not know the value of exploration, nor the most lucrative locations -- but we as players do know.

Civ admittedly has a parallel problem -- we, unlike ancient rulers, know not only that tech advancement has great value, but which techs lead to what kind of value. But at least exploration feels real, and your options feel truly open. So, for me, Civ has much better legs over the long haul.
 
Aaaghh I hate comparacent between EU4 and Civ. I mean they are totally different things with even different genres (Turn based strategy vs. RTS). And it aims different things, i mean EU4 is historical while civ doesnt even have TSL Earth map.
 
A better comparison would be between Civ 6 and Oriental Empires since both are 4x strategy game. Both are released soon.

Here is a video of gameplay of Oriental Empires:

Link to video.
 
So I remember playing an early version of EU and thinking "this is Risk, but with more buttons to push." It didn't seem very realistic--basically, you just crept around the map, taking one province after the other until you won. Like in Risk, which is boring.

So are the latest versions any better?
 
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