Civ VI vs. Europa Universalis

[criZp]

I was wondering how Civ VI might compare to Europa Universalis? Civ V seemed to be far from the EU complexity, so do we expect Civ VI to close that gap at least a bit?

Civ V sold loads more than any paradox game I'm sure. There's your answer.

 

[rastak]

So I remember playing an early version of EU and thinking "this is Risk, but with more buttons to push." It didn't seem very realistic--basically, you just crept around the map, taking one province after the other until you won. Like in Risk, which is boring.

So are the latest versions any better?

Nope, it's the same. I admit I'm downplaying some of the complexity but at the end of the day it seems to be grind grind core core. There is trade and tech but never a win condition unless you make one up for yourself.

I like Paradox but I saw Marborzir fire up a game of Hearts of Iron 4 and he said he'd play as Poland. I figured he'd set some date to hold out to and if he hit the target he'd declare he won. I watched the first couple episodes well after he was almost done with the series. I jumped to the end and POLAND was mopping up the last of Canada and the USA.

 

[Xur]

I'll kickstart that thread for you :

EU is complexity without depth.

That's the best description I have ever seen for EU.

 

[Abraxis]

So I remember playing an early version of EU and thinking "this is Risk, but with more buttons to push." It didn't seem very realistic--basically, you just crept around the map, taking one province after the other until you won. Like in Risk, which is boring.

So are the latest versions any better?

No, they just added more buttons to push and numbers to look at. All of which still coalesces into the same basic goal. Your understanding of said buttons and numbers really just affects the efficiency and speed by which you expand.

 

[paulmclem]

I bought EU4 in a Steam sale a few weeks ago. Looks like a lot to take in but I will give it a go at some point.

 

[Brianstorm]

PI games are pretty overrated imo, the more familiar you are with them they become much much easier. That said, I'd rather see them be inspired by the RPG/leader system of Crusader Kings 2 if they had to pick a Paradox game, and even then the Game of Thrones mod is far superior to the base game (and one of the greatest mods I've ever played!)

 

[Tinker]

They're completely different genres. Why even compare?

 

[Bibor]

Comparing EU to Civ is like comparing Arma to Crysis. Both are top tier in what they are offering.

@Acken Shallow? Please. Compared to Civ4, yes. Civ5 offered as much depth as my bathtub. What EU lacks in depth (again, compared to civ4), it compensates with detail, never seen in any civ game.

 

[Thormodr]

Both are great games. Well, Civ VI hasn't been released yet but it is very promising.

I have been playing the EU series since the very first one as well as the Civ series.

Totally different games so you can't really compare them.

I am impressed with what I see from Oriental Empires, though. More games in the 4X genre is good and competition makes everyone better.

 

[Acken]

@Acken Shallow? Please.

No

 

[gunnergoz]

I wish I had all the money back I've dumped into Paradox games because they have never left me feeling satisfied - in fact, I probably own a dozen of them going back years to their ealriest releases and have yet to finish one solitary single campaign. OTOH I've got over 2400 hours of play on Civ V alone, and gosh knows how much on the previous 4 civ games. So yeah, I'm hard-core Civ fan all right.

 

[isau]

What killed EU for me was realizing that in all the time it took to learn how to play it I could be learning an actually useful skill, and it would be about as much fun. It may be true that you can ignore a lot of what the game throws at you, but the game does a very poor job of communicating what things are important.

Civ is a very complex game (even Civ V, at least for people who don't think its a bowling simulator). But it's also an organized one that controls what it shows to you when. EU meanwhile just throws everything at you with no buffer. Not only that, but it doesn't provide clear examples of what it is you're supposed to be doing. I only figured out by watching gameplay videos that most of the time the answer is "nothing." The tutorial doesn't even make clear what normal gameplay should be like. A comparison would be if you loaded up an RPG and you start in an inn and have some idea there's a city to explore, but creating your character involves finding a particular button buried in a sub-menu that you need to right click and then cross reference with 4 or 5 other windows. And none of the various displays really explain what they are or whether they are remotely important.

 

[Ornen]

Am I the only one here who picked up EU4 pretty readily? They key is to dive in and be willing to make mistakes. It's not ludicrously hard to learn, at least in my experience.

The problem with EU4 is that the challenge just isn't quite there for me... It's a better simulation than a game. Civ has always straddled the line, and I think C5 works better as a game than EU4, even though Civ has had lingering balance issues for years. Hopefully they resolve those for Civ6.

 

[Acken]

Am I the only one here who picked up EU4 pretty readily? They key is to dive in and be willing to make mistakes. It's not ludicrously hard to learn, at least in my experience.

The problem with EU4 is that the challenge just isn't quite there for me... It's a better simulation than a game. Civ has always straddled the line, and I think C5 works better as a game than EU4, even though Civ has had lingering balance issues for years. Hopefully they resolve those for Civ6.

Same as me. I had no problem playing the game. I had problem staying interested for longer than 100hours or so.

But really it's just picking the right modifier making an army and slowly creeping across the map until you get bored before the end. That game lacks progression and purpose to me. Feels like playing a never ending boardgame of clunky mechanics while I could instead play 10 games of faster and more fun ones

 

[Thormodr]

Lots of EU bashing which was to be expected.

I can say that I have learnt so much history for the EU series. It's wonderously immersive in that way. Compared to Civ, it's like a set of encyclopedias compared to some scrawlings on a cocktail napkin.

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing Vijayanagar in EU and in contrast we have monolithic India led by the nuke happy troll doll Gandhi? Lol.

 

[isau]

Am I the only one here who picked up EU4 pretty readily? They key is to dive in and be willing to make mistakes. It's not ludicrously hard to learn, at least in my experience.

The problem with EU4 is that the challenge just isn't quite there for me... It's a better simulation than a game. Civ has always straddled the line, and I think C5 works better as a game than EU4, even though Civ has had lingering balance issues for years. Hopefully they resolve those for Civ6.

Well there is the distinct possibility I am just extremely slow witted. I have never had a problem understanding a game as much as with EU. Like, the whole purpose of the thing still is unclear to me even now. It's not a matter of making mistakes, it's a matter of there being so much junk on the screen and feeling completely disconnected from anything that is happening.

 

[Brianstorm]

Lots of EU bashing which was to be expected.

I can say that I have learnt so much history for the EU series. It's wonderously immersive in that way. Compared to Civ, it's like a set of encyclopedias compared to some scrawlings on a cocktail napkin.

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing Vijayanagar in EU and in contrast we have monolithic India led by the nuke happy troll doll Gandhi? Lol.

You have to be historical in EU, the game railroads that route!

 

[Thormodr]

You have to be historical in EU, the game railroads that route!

It used to be more that way. Now, it's more sandbox like. Both approaches have their good points.

Speaking of railroads, playing Civilization 5 reminded me of that. On a track that was straight ahead with no curves or elevation changes.

 

[Brianstorm]

It used to be more that way. Now, it's more sandbox like. Both approaches have their good points.

Speaking of railroads, playing Civilization 5 reminded me of that. On a track that was straight ahead with no curves or elevation changes.

lol, fair enough, but they seemed to have learned some important lessons when it comes to building individual civs. A factor no one seems to mention when they compare these games is the maps. You always play the real planet Earth in Paradox games, while I question the mental stability of anyone who only plays TSL maps on Civ.

 

[Thormodr]

lol, fair enough, but they seemed to have learned some important lessons when it comes to building individual civs. A factor no one seems to mention when they compare these games is the maps. You always play the real planet Earth in Paradox games, while I question the mental stability of anyone who only plays TSL maps on Civ.

They have released a random world generator for EU4 now.

I think the random world generator for Civ games is very cool and they are getting better with each iteration. Nothing wrong with TSL, though. Rhye's mod for cIV is one of the greatest mods for the Civ series ever. Second to FFH2, IMHO.