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Civ VII Idea - Roster Feedback

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by ~frogchild~, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. ~frogchild~

    ~frogchild~ Chieftain

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    I completely understand why people are pushing back, it's just something I feel fairly strongly about. But moving up to 20 civs Rome is 100% the next choice, and the numbers are even more reason for that choice.

    But there is no argument that will make me include America (or any post-colonial civs for that matter) in the base game. America is an important nation, yes, but if I do include post-colonial they will be in an expack based around colonies and such
     
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  2. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Prince

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    @~frogchild~ Firstly, even if it is unlikely that Firaxis would make a similar base game roster, I must say that I really like your roster a lot! Your choices for leaders look great too with some refreshing new faces like Bayinnaung, Scipio Africanus, Idia, etc. It seems very odd to have America and India out of the base game but if you bring them in eventually in an expansion pack then I'd personally still be fine with it. As much as I love America, putting them in an expansion centered around colonies makes sounds great and perhaps some of the animosity colonial civs get might be mitigated by being brought in later in an expansion rather than right away in the base game. I'm also quite curious about how you'll split up India.

    I'm sure you could put more civs in the base game but 19 civs is at least a good idea for the lowest number of civs we can expect. I now see you've got 20 plus a bonus 1 but either way I'm not complaining (at least as long as you include way more down the road with expansions).

    In my opinion, you already deserve props for having written down Babylonia instead of Babylon and for most of the double leader picks (especially the Maya who fit the need for it as much as Greece does)!

    I'll also give you plenty of credit for the number of Native American and African civs. Your base game alone has 5 civs from the Native Americas (who don't even have to share land with any colonial civs yet) and 4 African civs (5 if you're including Carthage) while Civ 6 currently has 4 Native civs and 5 African civs even after 2 expansions.

    Cardinal Richelieu is a pretty cool and unique leader choice even if I'd prefer the Sun King or the previously mentioned Henry IV. No complaints here though since him and Wu are the only leaders I can think of aside from Catherine that would have fun mechanics with spies.

    About the earlier comments about needing to separate the Anglo-Saxons from England, would there be large differences between the Anglo Saxons and early England? I do agree that I'd like more civs when possible but, based on what I've seen, many appear to include Alfred and his descendants as the first kings of England.

    Since you have listed Carthage, I'm guessing you'd prefer them or at least the civ name of Carthage over Phoenicia?

    To describe her briefly, Mandukhai was a Mongol queen who lived about 100 years after the fall of the Yuan dynasty. She reunited the mongols into a single empire by uniting them behind Dayan Khan, a descendant of Genghis and Kublai. Since Dayan was a child, Mandukhai was essentially the ruler with her own diplomatic and military successes. When Dayan came of age she married him and together they created a dynasty that harassed the Ming for 100 years and their descendants would be leaders of Mongolia all the way to the 1900s. Mandukhai was also said to be pregnant during and gave to twins after a battle. Regardless of the validity of that last story, she was a competent ruler and was described by some as the second coming of Genghis Khan. I'd say she's definitely a worthy leader to consider.
    I see that she's been replaced with Kublai now. He's great too but personally the only Mongol leader I like more than Genghis is Mandukhai.

    Thank you for getting me to look into Soleiman Hacen. Sounds like he's a great leader choice for the Swahili.

    The Tlingit are one of my favorites so I'm glad to see them on here! Katlian or Shaadaxicht would be cool leaders choices but there's some good stuff to use with Sheiyksh I so I approve regardless (especially because of his hat).

    I also really love the choices you made for the DLC civs, especially getting both Achaemenid and Sassanid Persia in.

    I see you've mentioned that you're wondering where to include Mansa Musa and Mali. They'd be cool to have in the DLC with a scenario but if you're set on the number of civs then they'd probably fit in with one of the expansions.

    Regardless, I'd say you've done a great job with the roster. I can only hope that a miracle happens to get a similar or identical list.
     
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  3. ~frogchild~

    ~frogchild~ Chieftain

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    First things first, thank you for the praise. As for America, I'm glad you agree. As for India I'll most likely include two unique Indian civs, one of them being the Mughals. Not sure bout the other one though.

    As for the number of civs, I plan at least 3 expansions, with waves of DLC between each.

    If I wasn't trying to be realistic, the base game would have 9-10 African civs, tbh

    I'm probably gonna do The Sun King for French leader No. 2

    I'm not sure bout that one. It's very on the line for me, and I'm still considering what to do with it.

    Yes, I think Carthage makes much more sense

    I knew a little about Mandukhai, but your post has made me like her loads more. I think I'll do Kublai and Manukhai as dual leaders.

    Thank you for the compliments about Swahili and the Tlingit. I haven't been able to find much about other Tlingit leaders so if you could link me to some sources that would be great!

    And Mali is gonna show up somewhere

    Thanks for the feedback
     
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  4. ~frogchild~

    ~frogchild~ Chieftain

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    I've made some changes to the roster on the first post, which has been updated
    • Added Scipio Africanus to the base game
    • Added NUMIDIA under Masinissa to the Punic Wars DLC
    • Cut Kublai Khan in favor of Mandukhai Khatun, saving Kublai to be a dual leader of Mongolia and China in Expansion Pack One
    • Added MAURYA under Ashoka and MUGHALS under Nur Jahan with a British Raj scenario involving the conquest of India by the British
     
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  5. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Prince

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    I'm not sure how players from India are very attached to 1 civ called India or not but, assuming they aren't, it leaves creating multiple leaders for India or splitting India into separate empires like you have with Maurya, Mughal, etc. I'm sure some will wonder if we'll ever see a leader from the Maratha empire or the southern Indian empires but, to leave the number to a realistic 2 especially for the base game, I agree that the Maurya and Mughal are the best choices. If the first mostly unified Indian empire and one of the 3 gunpowder empires aren't worthy to represent India then I don't know who is!

    I'm more or less on the fence with naming the civ Carthage or Phoenicia so either way works unless you plan to have a separate Phoenicia civ. Regardless, I like Carthage too and I'm actually thrilled you included Numidia as well to give them a little more competition in the area! I'm glad to see Africa getting more love! Out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, which 9-10 African civs would you include in the base game if you wanted to be unrealistic?

    I'm glad I got to show you a little more about Mandukhai, she really was extraordinary. Even if you didn't have her as another leader for Mongolia she's still worth knowing about in my opinion!

    For the Tlingit leaders I briefly mentioned them on this page of an elimination game but some really good sources for them are here for Katlian (mostly on pages 119 and 136) and here for Shaadaxicht (mostly on pages 43-55). Of course you don't have to change the leader from Sheiyksh I if you don't want to, there's enough info about him to make some good abilities and agendas. I just figured you'd like to know that there other options as well, especially since those leaders unfortunately lack Wikipedia pages which is something that I'm still working on. It isn't just the Tlingit or other PNW natives either, for one reason or another the Swahili and Zimbabwe also lack leaders with fleshed out Wikipedia pages. It's part of the reason that I'm glad that your roster got me to look into Soleiman Hacen for the Swahili.

    As long as Mali appears eventually in the game then I'll be happy so I won't be worried if they aren't in the base game. Same goes for the Inca, Ottomans, etc. Just to have the roster you currently have would already be extraordinary!

    I also gotta give you kudos for adding the scenarios as well, the ones we have in Civ 6 are cool but I wish we had more of them.

    I know that the focus here is on the roster specifically but I'm also interested in what a few people mentioned here about new mechanics such as changing adjacency rules and district placements. I like the idea of either a much smaller ring of hexes just on the outside of the city before the general sized ones everywhere else on the map or that the city itself is made of much smaller hexes and you can chose where to build a district inside it. That way, most districts (apart from the encampment district) appear to gel much better with the city they belong to.

    Once again, you've got a lot of great ideas here. Keep it up!
     
  6. ~frogchild~

    ~frogchild~ Chieftain

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    I'll probably eventually include a third Indian civ in the Chola, because if there's one thing I like as much as Africa and Mesoamerica it's maritime civs

    I went with Carthage cuz I want to focus on Carthage and it's empire, not the ancient Phoenecian city-states and their dubious leader

    My 10 African Civs
    • Egypt
    • Madagascar
    • Carthage
    • Numidia
    • Swahili
    • Benin
    • Zimbabwe
    • Ashanti
    • Nubia
    • Mali

    About the Tlingit, awesome! I'll look into them

    Mali almost made the cut for expansion one, which has a draft roster, but Arabia won out because it's more influential overall and more of a major omission. Ottomans are important, and I'll probs fit in a Byzantium and Ottomans DLC somewhere. Muisca (my personal favorite civ of all time) stand in for Inca, who will show up eventually.

    Yeah I wanna make sure I've got a good amount of scenarios because I find Civ VI's are very minimal. I had a cool idea for a Musa's Pilgrimage scenario, where you have to escort a civilian unit (Musa) across the map to Mecca.

    I like the ring adjacency idea. I'm also going to add corporations and economic victory, a reworked world congress and something to do with colonialism.

    Thanks again for the feedback. I'm going to start posting some designs for civs soon, so stay tuned!
     
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  7. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Prince

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    That's exciting news, I'm looking forward to it!

    One other thing I wanted to bring up for a new mechanic is for rivers to have their own tiles so that they'll have their own yields and that river focused units and combat can be made. It's not necessary but there is plenty that it could add if its explored as a new mechanic.
     
  8. ~frogchild~

    ~frogchild~ Chieftain

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    Hm. That would be good to see
    • ARABIA (Harun Al-Rashid)
    • BYZANTIUM (Basil II) or (Theodora)
    • HITTITES (Pudehupa)
    • KONGO (Garcia II)
    • NORWAY (Haakon IV)
    • COMANCHE (Quanah Parker)
    • TIBET (Songstan Gampo)
    • HAWAI'I (Kamehameha)
    • MIXTEC (Eight Deer Jaguar Claw)
    • Wu Zetian for CHINA
    • Akenhaten for EGYPT
    This is my first draft for Expack One, focusing on religion and the early game.

    Arabia, Byzantium, Tibet and Kongo are there because of major religious influences

    Hittites, Hawai'i and Mixtec are there to represent ancient/classical cultures

    Comanche and Norway are outliers, but they both do have minor elements of the other themes

    And it's got Akenhaten there because if I go with this list I'll cut him from base and put him here alongside a religious reform mechanic

    This is still a draft though
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020 at 12:13 AM
  9. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Prince

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    Gooood. Hittites shouldn't be left out completely
     

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