Civ7: Eliminating late game decision inflation

[molst]

It would be interesting to know how many players like the first half of the game more than the second half. I think I should post a poll for that..

I love Civ since Civ 1, but usually start over many times and play through a full game maybe once out of 50 games. This is simply because the first part of the game is utterly fantastic while the latter part is... well... it is sometimes worth playing just because of the merits of the first part.

I believe, since Civ 1, we have had a huge problem of late game decision inflation where you have to make 100 times more decisions each one being only worth 1/100. And it is a pity that we haven't been able to solve this efter 5 revisions.. So! Let's fix it for Civ 7!

I want to hear your big ideas to solve this!

Here's one idea for a start: Maybe we could introduce unions (think Soviet Union and the European Union). Let the players plan for dissolving their late game empire into a union with a main nation and the rest being controlled by AI. Like vassals, they start friendly, but may turn away from you. Reward players for doing this. Let it be a risk involved, but also a possible great reward.

Let's kill micro management once and for all. Let me hear all your ideas! Cheers!

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

The map pins should be integrated into the game so that build queues and builders can be automated. For me spending a few minutes layout out what a city should do is easier than rembering oner the course of many turns.

Master build screen for units. Show me how many of my units are in the city, how far it is from the capital, and how efficient it is a producing units. Now that i think about it I would like to be able to issue order for existing units to go to other cites based on that info.

 

[pineappledan]

being able to select and give orders to multiple units at once would go a long way. You’ve been able to do this in RTS games since the 90s

 

[aieeegrunt]

Part of this is decision fatigue (too many clicks per turn).

The biggest part is Civ being a feedback loop snowball with almost zero compensating mechanics. You hit a certain point, often around the middle ages/renaissance, and the game is basically decided.

So the feeling of decision fatigue is compounded by the fact that the greater number of clicks and decisions has far far less meaning because the game is already decided.

Historically states would get to a certain size and collapse due to a combination of infighting and/or ethnic/cultural/linguistic clashes.

This doesnt happen in Civ because by and large after a token period of unrest or disloyalty a city founded by another civ that you take over Borgifys and becomes loyal drones feeding your war machine.

Something like the collapse of the Roman Empire; one of THE pivotal moments in the history of the world, is literally impossible in this game because there is zero internal strife. Dramatic Ages is too easy to avoid because like most of Cuv6’s munchkin dominated design style it’s purely number’s based determinism and thus easily gamed and minimaxed away.

We need something like Civ4’s vassal system on steroids. Cities you don’t found never truly become part of your civ; they act more like permanently levvied city states contributing units and tax revenue but not really under your control. If your military power relative to your vassals gets too low they rebel and secceeded.

So you are Rome and you steamroll the Mediterranean, conquering Gaul, Spain, Britain, North Africa, Greece, Asia Minor and Egypt by the end of the Classical Era

Well, if you are playing Civ you might as well restart, Rome has hit critical mass and it’ll be almost impossible to lose now. Game decided by like 100 AD

If you had Vassals On Steroids combined with some sort of internal strife mechanics you could instead have a situation where the legions decimate each other with civil wars, the player focused too much on vanity projects (Great Wonders etc), the Germans/barbarians picking away at you, your military strength drops too low and suddenly Gaul, Spain et al secede and their respective civs ressurrect, and your empire fragments.

Looks like Western Europe is back on the menu boys!

 

[molst]

Part of this is decision fatigue (too many clicks per turn).

The biggest part is Civ being a feedback loop snowball with almost zero compensating mechanics. You hit a certain point, often around the middle ages/renaissance, and the game is basically decided.

So the feeling of decision fatigue is compounded by the fact that the greater number of clicks and decisions has far far less meaning because the game is already decided.

Historically states would get to a certain size and collapse due to a combination of infighting and/or ethnic/cultural/linguistic clashes.

This doesnt happen in Civ because by and large after a token period of unrest or disloyalty a city founded by another civ that you take over Borgifys and becomes loyal drones feeding your war machine.

Something like the collapse of the Roman Empire; one of THE pivotal moments in the history of the world, is literally impossible in this game because there is zero internal strife. Dramatic Ages is too easy to avoid because like most of Cuv6’s munchkin dominated design style it’s purely number’s based determinism and thus easily gamed and minimaxed away.

We need something like Civ4’s vassal system on steroids. Cities you don’t found never truly become part of your civ; they act more like permanently levvied city states contributing units and tax revenue but not really under your control. If your military power relative to your vassals gets too low they rebel and secceeded.

So you are Rome and you steamroll the Mediterranean, conquering Gaul, Spain, Britain, North Africa, Greece, Asia Minor and Egypt by the end of the Classical Era

Well, if you are playing Civ you might as well restart, Rome has hit critical mass and it’ll be almost impossible to lose now. Game decided by like 100 AD

If you had Vassals On Steroids combined with some sort of internal strife mechanics you could instead have a situation where the legions decimate each other with civil wars, the player focused too much on vanity projects (Great Wonders etc), the Germans/barbarians picking away at you, your military strength drops too low and suddenly Gaul, Spain et al secede and their respective civs ressurrect, and your empire fragments.

Looks like Western Europe is back on the menu boys!

Yeah, even though a city is under military control one should probably not control its production settings until assimilated to a high degree, and that should require hundreds of years of hard work through religion, culture or force.

At the same time I think it should also be possible to run a successful civilization without achieving fully assimilated micro control of all cities and troops. The price of reaching micro control may not be worth it for democratic/globalistic/woke play styles.