co-op multiplayer questions

[Squidmaster]

I've been playing cooperative multiplayer Civ 5 games with my mom and girlfriend against computer opponents recently. We all play on different difficulty settings. Typically I place we humans on the same team and divide up the AI into roughly equally sized teams of their own. I've noticed some abnormalities that I think some of you might be able to help me with.

When playing these games, it seems that the computer plays a really, really bad game. They may never build any military units, and in a game I'm currently playing with my mom, a Persian AI popped out a settler right next to one of my besieging units not once, but twice. Additionally, many of the AI's don't improve their land. How can I fix this?

I also notice that the aggressiveness and frequency of barbarians fluctuates wildly from one game to the next. Is there a reason that this happens?

Thanks for your help!

 

[LostKnight]

I've been playing cooperative multiplayer Civ 5 games with my mom and girlfriend against computer opponents recently. We all play on different difficulty settings. (...) !

That is the reason. AI will always play on the difficulty of the HOST. So if your GF host a game and shes on chieftain (while everyone else is on prince), AI will play like a regular chieftain game.

 

[Squidmaster]

I'm reasonably certain I have created all of the games, and I am playing on the higher difficulty. Does the computer know how to play in an alliance?

I also am curious how you win cultural or diplomatic victories with allied players. Can only one of the players do it, or do you combine resources in that way in a manner that I cannot grasp as yet?

 

[greygamer]

Either player can win for the team on any victory condition. So if you are not going for Domination only one needs to build the spaceship for example (the same of course applies to AI teams). There tends to be a lot of war in co-op team games and the AI likes to DoW other teams then make peace so you can't get them as allies when it attacks you.

 

[Squidmaster]

If I'm reading this correctly, what you're saying is that allies cannot really share of victory conditions except for science (minus the actual ship) and domination. What happens if the allies split the city state alliances? How can an ally help with a cultural win?

My question about the computer being able to play in an alliance pertains to the actual game set up, not trying to ally a computer opponent as a human. I'm starting games on King difficulty, and the computer often seems to be incompetent. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that.

 

[greygamer]

If I'm reading this correctly, what you're saying is that allies cannot really share of victory conditions except for science (minus the actual ship) and domination. What happens if the allies split the city state alliances? How can an ally help with a cultural win?

My question about the computer being able to play in an alliance pertains to the actual game set up, not trying to ally a computer opponent as a human. I'm starting games on King difficulty, and the computer often seems to be incompetent. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that.

Do you mean putting the AI into teams?
If the team wants to go for a culture win then one player focuses on that and the other looks after the rest like building a large military so the 'culture' player can make more culture focused cities/wonders. The military player can then send military assistance and rather than build lots of culture buildings / ally culture CS focus on the others. You can't send culture to your teammate though.
So the support player might focus on gold and supporting a large army and the station part of that army to threaten AI civs on the culture players borders.

The AI does seem to do some strange things I can't really help you there. Possibly the AI is using a non-alliance mindset whereas human players will use a strategy based on co-operation. If there is a thread on how the AI creates it's strategies that would help, maybe try playing on a higher level. It seems that an AI team will focus on one human opponent and this does leave them vulnerable especially on single landmass games.

 

[Squidmaster]

I do mean putting the AI into teams, yes. I do that so that our human group does not have an insane advantage. If there was a better way to solve that problem, I would be happy to employ it.

Is there any way to get allies to start near each other? I like the idea of having one player provide the military for the others, but that only works if the proximity is not too distant, and definitely not over water.

 

[Yalish]

There are only a few map scripts that currently have the option for team starts:

• Skirmish
• North vs. South
• West vs. East

There may be one other that I'm forgetting, but I think that's it.

 

[Squidmaster]

I can put the AI into teams whenever I want. The problem is that they don't seem to have a clue what to do with it. I'm not sure, but it also maybe short-circuiting their usual plans.

 

[Yalish]

Right. My reply was in response to your asking if there were a way to have allies start close to each other -- the only way to assure this happening is on maps with a team start setting, which I listed.

As for the AI acting in a concerted fashion within their teams, sadly that won't happen. They will behave exactly as they would if they were alone. The only difference being they may make slightly different tech choices due to some being 'quicker' because their teammate is already researching it.

 

[Squidmaster]

Ah, I understand. Thanks for that information.

Is there a list anywhere of which wonders work for both the builder and any allies he may have? I know the Great Wall works for allies. So far, that's the only one I know about for sure.

Is there any way to make the AI smarter in a multiplayer game?

 

[Yalish]

The Great Wall is amusingly the only wonder that works for both the builder and their allies. I really don't understand that, as it's about the most unbalanced wonder in multiplayer, and it extending to allies makes it even more so.

As for your other question, sadly the answer is no at the moment

 

[guinsoo]

We've also noticed that the AI is unusually adept in team games. I can win some immortal games in single player; we win all diety games vs AI if it's teams.

It actually seems to be best to have everyone on their own team, for both the players and the AI. With cooperation among the humans if desired.

Sharing tech path is often burdensome with multiple players for example one person wants to beeline Archaelogy for culture, the other wants to beeline Sci Theory for science, another person wants to beeline Dynamite for military. Additionally, with everyone on their own team, the humans can sign research agreements with each other for the science, which won't be broken if the humans are playing cooperatively. It seems to be far more difficult to make friendships and RAs in team games with the AIs. I'm lucky if I get 2 first wave, 1 second wave, and none from then on out. No one will be friends with me mid-late game, even if I've played peaceful, went out of my way to garner green mods and avoid red ones, etc.

The AIs just seem to play worse when they're together. They don't coordinate attacks (often DOWing themselves into 1v2s), it seems to delay their research to key techs, one player will break another's research agreement with a DOW that the other doesn't want at all, etc.

On the downside you don't get to see each other's territory, and you can't move through each other's lands until Civil Service. There are other downsides too, for example in a 2 person team you can get 6 free techs between your Oxfords and Rationalism. 3 person team you get 9. However I'm not sure this outweighs being able to get almost no RAs for the entire game. Overall I think everyone on their team seems to make the game best for all parties.

As noted above, Great Wall works for allies. It seems like a bug, because it's ridiculously overpowered

 

[Squidmaster]

These are all really good points. I feel like I need to play in alliances because I tend to be helping the other players with unit positioning and other game concepts. If I can't see their maps, that gets a lot harder. If there is a workaround for that, I would certainly give it a try.

That is so strange that the Great Wall works for everyone when no other wonder does. I guess it is a coding oversight.

I have noticed issues with choosing technologies when each player needs different things. You have any advice for that? What are the best victory conditions to pursue to minimize this problem? Obviously military victory would be one of them. Are there civilizations that make it easier to play in tandem that was slightly different aims (i.e. one allied Civ going for culture and the other defending the culture win with military)?