CO2 generation

[Zenstrive]

Democracy? What is that?

 

[Pietato]

Democracy? What is that?

Something America lost.

Moderator Action: Please keep current events and politics out of the game threads. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Sostratus]

I fail to see how a half dozen stock exchanges suddenly makes me a pariah of pollution.

Of course you can't see; your vision is clouded by ash and soot as you choke on the acrid smell of smoke

Never mind that the balance for power is way off.

Industrialization is unbelievably powerful for a couple countries, namely germany, japan and the netherlands. I almost feel like having it be that strong for everyone would make it flow a lot better.
This would be something like:
factory gives the coal plant bonus when unpowered
the factory gives a stacking aura when powered
the Plants themselves provide power but do nothing else.

So you'd want to build all these factories and IZs in the first place because the base benefits are huge; once you have them you have a massive upside to powering them with fossil fuel as fast as you can, at the downside of the environment. Yes, I realize stacking auras would be very strong, but we could always cap it. Even if you had it be +5 regional aura that stacks with a local +5, that would be +10 in a lot of cities, which is extremely significant. (Remember that moving the coal plant bonus means that 1 base IZ adj can equal 4 production if you run craftsmen/5yr plan once you get a factory up.)
If you play as Germany there's a very clear blitz of development once you unlock industrialization precisely because it's literally more than doubling your output from IZs (which is already extremely high.) I feel like every civ should have that experience. Except Maori. Screw those hippies.

To the OP, I agree that unit emissions are practically nonsensical. The extreme level of resource constraint that applies to every modern land air and naval unit is just crazy. They're using the civ5 consumption model but with 1/3 of the resource supply, and making virtually no resource free units available at all.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Co2 is just a fraction of pollution effects from all other source combined...
Even Civ 3 had a much more advanced pollution integration. Waste generation was damped
onto nearby farm fields, giving immediate food scarcity.
Ocean acidification might be built into the weather mechanics, thus labeled as Co2, so it's normal
that Co2 raises as cities gets bigger, it reflects population growth.

The real problem is pollution is barely present as a strategic factor.
Nor flood barriers can be build further away, in low coastal waters far aside the coast, or to close an inlet,
the way the Netherlands did and Venice is failing to do completely because of corruption I guess.

The other big problem is resource depletion. Chopping rainforest, as a natural Co2 sequester, can't be addressed
if all of the resource depletion scheme don't get upgraded.

Forest fires for example, rivers and lakes complete drying up are two cases, but also a coal mine with infinite output and no depletion is a problem. Complete depletion of resourcers MUST be added as an OPTION, or after two weeks, there will be other nerfs that will make it useless ( Forests fires will stop to incinerate completely, rivers drying up will be made temporary as droughts. Coal mines will magically outspan the lifetime of your Nuclear plant...)

 

[kb27787]

The game has never been that realistic..

I mean, Japan has this massive +8 UD when powered called electronics factory...
Which, mind you, is available before electricity is discovered. I guess they have anime-like psychic powers to foresee the future and develop places to manufacture items which should be completely useless until decades later.

 

[AsH2]

Also there should still be some land rising since last ice age..

Spoiler :

The weight of the ice sheets was so great that they deformed the Earth's crust and mantle. After the ice sheets melted, the ice-covered land rebounded. Due to the high viscosity of the Earth's mantle, the flow of mantle rocks which controls the rebound process is very slow—at a rate of about 1 cm/year near the center of rebound area today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

 

[Ferocitus]

What if Beans were included as a food tile, like rice and wheat. +4 food, +1 CO2, +1 CH4, +1 H2S.
That would give pause in deciding how big to grow your city.

 

[HiRezAudio]

The biggest problem with the Global Warming mechanic is that it is all based on a left wing communist/socialist lie.
CO2 does not cause temperature rise at all - if anything iit follows rises in temperature and does absolutely not cause them.
The other issue is that the levels in this are stupid - show me a single square metre that has been lost to so-called climate change, never mind 3 meters upwards.
This is just stupid left wing propaganda.

Moderator Action: Please keep this thread in game terms. If you wish to argue about the real world issue, take it to the Off Topic forum. Current events/politics are not allowed in the game forums. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Victoria]

This is just stupid left wing propaganda.

And wether you realise it or not you have just provided the opposite which is just as bad.
It is clearly caused by the lack of pirates as has been discussed previously.
Can we stay on the game subject, politics is NOT allowed here, there is a forum for off topic subjects

 

[acluewithout]

This would be something like:
factory gives the coal plant bonus when unpowered
the factory gives a stacking aura when powered
the Plants themselves provide power but do nothing else.

So you'd want to build all these factories and IZs in the first place because the base benefits are huge; once you have them you have a massive upside to powering them with fossil fuel as fast as you can, at the downside of the environment. Yes, I realize stacking auras would be very strong, but we could always cap it. Even if you had it be +5 regional aura that stacks with a local +5, that would be +10 in a lot of cities, which is extremely significant. (Remember that moving the coal plant bonus means that 1 base IZ adj can equal 4 production if you run craftsmen/5yr plan once you get a factory up.)
If you play as Germany there's a very clear blitz of development once you unlock industrialization precisely because it's literally more than doubling your output from IZs (which is already extremely high.) I feel like every civ should have that experience. Except Maori. Screw those hippies.

Yes please.

I’d also like to see unlocking certain techs causing your Cities to require power, and your citizens being unhappy if the City is unpowered.

Stacking Auras is already possible with Magnus. Another approach would be maybe having a late game building or district that also allows stacking, eg tech hub. You’d never have many, so it should hopefully not be too powerful.

 

[Palo]

I want future tech to reclaim flooded tiles and the ability to fully reverse climate change.

A future era wonder or projects from an eco-rehab district would be nice.

 

[Abaxial]

Also there should still be some land rising since last ice age..

Spoiler :

The weight of the ice sheets was so great that they deformed the Earth's crust and mantle. After the ice sheets melted, the ice-covered land rebounded. Due to the high viscosity of the Earth's mantle, the flow of mantle rocks which controls the rebound process is very slow—at a rate of about 1 cm/year near the center of rebound area today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

Actually, no - in Civ 6 all the ice is sea ice, which doesn't weigh down on the crust. In any case, isostatic rebound is far too slow to be noticeable in a Civ 6 time frame.

 

[AsH2]

Actually, no - in Civ 6 all the ice is sea ice, which doesn't weigh down on the crust. In any case, isostatic rebound is far too slow to be noticeable in a Civ 6 time frame.

Well, the rebound in a Civ 6 time frame would be as much as the much faster sea level rise so could at least be a counter factor for some tiles around the poles (in the up north and down south).
Also, though (almost, I think I've seen screenshots showing flooded land tile between sea ice) all remaining ice is at sea, there should have been land ice prior Civ 6 time frame or the topic of this thread would be pretty off the real world cases - consider Civ 6 time frame start somewhat in the middle between two glacial periods would make more sense than closely after one.

 

[cain3456]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a very short time from when coal is discovered to when oil is discovered. Why ever build a coal factory when you can use 'cleaner' oil?
As for the game's climate model....GIGO.

 

[Victoria]

Why ever build a coal factory when you can use 'cleaner' oil

For the eureka
Because oil is scarce or missing in your lands

I personally try to skip both.

 

[steveg700]

Is it just me, or does it seem like a very short time from when coal is discovered to when oil is discovered. Why ever build a coal factory when you can use 'cleaner' oil?
As for the game's climate model....GIGO.

It's only a short distance if you've already climbed up the top of the tree. If you haven't been working the naval angle, it's a bit of a slog through some unboosted techs.

Insomuch as tech progress is ever a slog anyway.

Plus, like Vic said, oil may not be something to take for granted.

 

[Sostratus]

Why ever build a coal factory when you can use 'cleaner' oil?

Oil is often at a premium for military units. Since both it and coal produce 4 power each, it's a lot more resource efficient to slate coal for power needs and oil for the military; as @Victoria mentions, for clean power both can be leapfrogged by Nuke. And renewables come into play too, by the atomic age.

But really, the entire reason to use coal plants is because the bonus effect of coal plants is absurdly good if you build your districts for it. With a good IZ layout (see links in my sig if exploiting IZs isn't your forte) a single coal plant can be worth 20+. The idea is that you can leverage that industrial base to rush ahead to get computers-> flood barriers up, which keeps you dry while the pesky maori sink back into the ocean from whence they came.
And in short order, you can slam out so much CO2 recapture that you can actually sink the entire world's emissions to 0 off the back of your idle factories. That's really only if you care about the environment; it's totally valid to just abuse coal power to brute force your way to a smog fueled victory.

 

[MrRadar]

Why ever build a coal factory when you can use 'cleaner' oil?

Oil is needed for modern units, so often it is too scarce and precious to be wasted on power generation.

Coal factory adds production based on IZ adjacency. Play your IZ adjacency puzzle well, slot in +100% card and you'll have a respectable input of cogs from your coal plant in that city and never want to replace it.

As for worrying about CO2 generation, you'll pollute enough to sink the world just by having some ironclads and battleships or by laying some railroads, so beelining computers for flood barriers is inevitable anyway if you're coastal, and if you're not then usually it is not your concern.

Edit: ah, ninja'd by Master @Sostratus himself, sorry

 

[Lazy sweeper]

And wether you realise it or not you have just provided the opposite which is just as bad.
It is clearly caused by the lack of pirates as has been discussed previously.
Can we stay on the game subject, politics is NOT allowed here, there is a forum for off topic subjects

Yeah! Where's Pirates? Let's start a Pirate thread, personalities and such, remember to ask to ALWAYS INCLUDE OPTIONS in the Menu.
No Options, no fun, CO2 options? Sand Dust? Rivers and Lakes can dry up completely? Options!

 

[Victoria]

Where's Pirates?

No need to discuss, the evidence is there
https://www.venganza.org/category/pirates/page/4/

Personally I am a sub genius with bob but may convert