combat - i thought it was straightforward.....

[David In Asia]

i've been happily going along with how the manual explains the combat - pretty simple A/(A+D) with bonuses taken into consideration of course, and it seemed to be working ok for me. then i have a quick look at the "combat system explained" thread......uh??!!

X = (HP of both units added together - 1)
Y = HP of defender
Z = X - Y
A = Crude turn win % (in a .xx format so 50% would be .50)
B = 1 - A
C = (X-Y)!

Crude final battle win % = (X!/(Y! * C!)) * (A^Y) * (B^Z)

and on it goes. maybe to a few of you, it all makes sense. do i need to understand that massive thread, or can i stick with my A/(A+D)? and if i can use the simple formulae, what's it all about?


d

btw, noticed the same old same old threads starting to appear now the patch is imminent - give it a rest, eh lads?

 

[Mavfin]

or search for 'combat calculator' and it will help you quite a bit, understanding how it all works, and the defensive bonuses....

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by David In Asia
. . . and on it goes. maybe to a few of you, it all makes sense. do i need to understand that massive thread, or can i stick with my A/(A+D)? and if i can use the simple formulae, what's it all about?

Stick with a/(a+d). That can be used to generate "expected value," probably the most intuitive statistical inference.

Or do what I do. Just pretend. It really does work. But keep in mind that sometimes -- no matter how well trained, dedicated and equipped your troops might be -- someone may accidentally drop a bomb on their own ally's troops (the so-called spearman v. tank a.k.a. randomizer debate). So be prepared for setbacks.

 

[The Troquelet]

http://207.191.20.18/civ3/lwc-civulator.html of course, mind the HP, not what it CALLS veteran... it's from the LWC modpack, so its veteran is 5 not 4 I think. So if you have a 4 hp veteran unit, select 4 (Regular). Simple enough.

Edit to Zach: using veteran units and a/a+d, Swordsman vs Warrior gives 80%, but it's really 90. Horseman vs Warrior gives 66, really 80. Cavalry vs Musketman supposedly 60, really 66. Tank vs Infantry should be 62, it's really 66. In other words, past Gunpowder the formula is accurate enough for any practical purpose. Before Gunpowder (Knights, Swordsmen, Chariots, Immortals, Jaguars etc) you should probably double check.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by The Troquelet


http://207.191.20.18/civ3/lwc-civulator.html of course, mind the HP, not what it CALLS veteran... it's from the LWC modpack, so its veteran is 5 not 4 I think. So if you have a 4 hp veteran unit, select 4 (Regular). Simple enough.

Edit to Zach: using veteran units and a/a+d, Swordsman vs Warrior gives 80%, but it's really 90. Horseman vs Warrior gives 66, really 80. Cavalry vs Musketman supposedly 60, really 66. Tank vs Infantry should be 62, it's really 66. In other words, past Gunpowder the formula is accurate enough for any practical purpose. Before Gunpowder (Knights, Swordsmen, Chariots, Immortals, Jaguars etc) you should probably double check.

That's right, Troquelet. The higher the a and d, the closer the match. Just as important is the hp. If you have a superiority in hp, your odds are improved substantially. For instance with sword v. regular spearman.

1hp 19% redlined
2hp 43% damaged
3hp 64% regular
4hp 79% veteran
5hp 87% elite

A ten hp swordsman almost never loses against a regular spearman. If both units have equal hp, then as hp increase, the odds approach certainty that the superior force will win. I think it's best to just get a feel for it, though a lot of people like playing with the numbers for their own sake.

Here is another version of the simulator that uses standard hp:
http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html

 

[Zachriel]

Which brings up bombard!

That is why -- in the right hands -- bombard is so powerful. A veteran rifleman can beat a redlined rifleman, fortified behind town walls 70% of the time. No doubt the battle will be bloody, but victory may be in reach. Compare that to a veteran cavalry v. a veteran unit fortified behind town walls

rifleman 20%
musketman 38%
pikeman 54%

Better still is combined arms; such as, cannon, rifle and cavalry. Cavalry v. a redlined rifleman fortified behind town walls is 82%. Even against infantry the odds are a very reasonable 67%.