Comparing Tanks and Mech Inf

[Quagga]

In the mode of the newest unit is always better, I had been pretty much blindly switching my production from Tanks to Mech Infantry once I got Robotics. But recently, I've been giving it a little more thought (some might say too little ) and I've begun to rethink that. Here are some points to bring out some discussion. I'm really looking for comment from others.

Tanks can get City Raider. This is their biggest plus.

Tanks are Armor and thus vulnerable to Gunships, whereas MI are Gunpowder Units.

MI are Gunpowder Units so there are probably lots of enemy units around that have counter promotions.

Tanks have blitz, so can multi-attack.

MI have March, so heal on the run.

MI are stronger and get defensive bonuses.

MI can intercept aircraft.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

I don't think one is better than the other in the general sense. One is a defensive-first unit and the other is an offensive first unit.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I drop tanks like a bad habit as soon as I get mechanized infantry. Tanks are going to become obsolete soon enough anyway.

 

[lilnev]

Tanks don't go obsolete. They upgrade to Modern Armor.

peace,
lilnev

 

[mice]

Something we saw from Gaiur's game in the isolated start thread was that he mixed his stacks very well. If mech inf is defensive perhaps the ideas is to keep both in the stack, with an eye to upgrading the tanks to modern armour later.

 

[svv]

I'll usually continually produce offensive units in my west point city, so I'll keep building tanks here. Everywhere else I'll produce the best offensive unit when I need more and they're current, otherwise other units, including mech infantry when they become available, and before that things like machine guns, infantry, and SAM infantry.

 

[Welnic]

I definitely start making mechanized infantry, but I use them to replace infantry, not tanks. Tanks can get city raider, drill, and barrage. Those all make them better for attacking both in the open and for cities. You need gunpowder units in the stack to protect from gunships and so that you can get terrain bonuses. Mechanized infantry are the first gunpowder units that can keep up with tanks, but I don't feel that they replace them at all.

 

[LucyDuke]

I don't think one is better than the other in the general sense. One is a defensive-first unit and the other is an offensive first unit.

This is my line of thinking, too. Same way I don't send out a stack of nothing but Catapults, I don't like sending out a stack of nothing but MI, or even predominantly MI. Mix up the stack, if only so you've got some defenders to leave behind in your newly-captured cities. MI are better defenders than Tanks, but it's hard to beat Blitz when you're attacking. And of course, Tanks upgrade to Modern Armor relatively cheaply. Each has its use.

 

[Cosmichail]

I tend to upgrade from grens to infantry to mech infantry and end up with some CR3 mechs which are extremely powerful in taking cities. Even better is with Ragnar and have them amphibious and go nuts on their coastal cities and a compliment of aircraft (carrier) to weaken defenders. On land attacks though I do always put mechs and tanks together since they travel at the same speed and are good as a team. So I think tanks even when mechs are available are still quite useful. Even better when you can upgrade them to MA.

 

[mrt144]

the collateral damage bonus from barrage is disgusting when you have 5-10 tanks attacking anything.

 

[LucyDuke]

the collateral damage bonus from barrage is disgusting when you have 5-10 tanks attacking anything.

It's like having cats that you don't have to suicide. I love it.

 

[popejubal]

It's like having cats that you don't have to suicide. I love it.

Tanks without City Raider are suicide units too. You might get lucky and see them survive occasionally, but they generally die. You really do need that CR II or CR III to take cities reliably even after your bombers have reduced the city defenses to near 0.

If you really want to take cities, bring along Tanks to take the city, any leftover Artillery from earlier wars to bombard and then cause collateral damage, take along a Medic III chopper that you have leftover from when you burned the great general on that Charriot and bring a couple of Mech Infantry to make sure that your tanks aren't the ones being attacked by choppers. Don't forget your bombers to do the heavy lifting on taking out the cultural defensive bonus.

As in the rest of Civ, the best unit for taking cities is... a good mixture.

 

[mrt144]

Tanks without City Raider are suicide units too. You might get lucky and see them survive occasionally, but they generally die. You really do need that CR II or CR III to take cities reliably even after your bombers have reduced the city defenses to near 0.

If you really want to take cities, bring along Tanks to take the city, any leftover Artillery from earlier wars to bombard and then cause collateral damage, take along a Medic III chopper that you have leftover from when you burned the great general on that Charriot and bring a couple of Mech Infantry to make sure that your tanks aren't the ones being attacked by choppers. Don't forget your bombers to do the heavy lifting on taking out the cultural defensive bonus.

As in the rest of Civ, the best unit for taking cities is... a good mixture.

I don't know. there has to be some point where the sheer number of tanks with barrage outdoes cr. for instance the fact you cant get cr II or 3 right off the bat where the barrage promotion is pretty low, is a factor.

 

[jihe]

when you have bombers all defenders are half strength anyway.

Tanks without City Raider are suicide units too. You might get lucky and see them survive occasionally, but they generally die. You really do need that CR II or CR III to take cities reliably even after your bombers have reduced the city defenses to near 0.

If you really want to take cities, bring along Tanks to take the city, any leftover Artillery from earlier wars to bombard and then cause collateral damage, take along a Medic III chopper that you have leftover from when you burned the great general on that Charriot and bring a couple of Mech Infantry to make sure that your tanks aren't the ones being attacked by choppers. Don't forget your bombers to do the heavy lifting on taking out the cultural defensive bonus.

As in the rest of Civ, the best unit for taking cities is... a good mixture.

 

[Collier20]

I don't give up my tanks either. I love my CR promotions. I keep macemen around after I get musketmen. The CR make it totally worth it.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Tanks to gain ground; Mech Infantry (or earlier Infantry, etc.), to hold it.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I don't give up my tanks either. I love my CR promotions. I keep macemen around after I get musketmen. The CR make it totally worth it.

I've found Mace --> Grenadiers to be very worth the gold if they're CR3 or better. Then you have GRENS with CR3, and then when you get Steel and supplement those with CR2 Cannons for prep-work, BOOYAH, the challenge becomes not going broke from the maintenance of all the cities you take.

 

[popejubal]

I've found Mace --> Grenadiers to be very worth the gold if they're CR3 or better.

I never understood the attraction of Grenadiers. Riflemen were obviously way better. Why upgrade CRIII Macemen to Grenadiers when Riflemen were just around the corner.

That's because I was always going for Printing Press and Replaceable Parts early for the economic boost and leaving off the Gunpowder until quite late.

Then I tried an early break toward Gunpowder and got Chemistry with Liberalism. Wow! What a difference.

Getting Grenadiers that early meant that I had a unit that would absolutely decimate all available city defenders in the same way that Macemen do when you get them before anyone else has Civil Service or Feudalism. Grenadiers have the added benefit of being able to reliably take on Riflemen when they come on line much more reliably any other contemporary unit.

In short, CRIII Grenadiers easily take out any unit that comes before Grenadiers. They easily take out Cavalry that are sitting in a city. They reliably take out Riflemen. That's a pretty good unit in my book. Worth the upgrade fee.

 

[svv]

The other thing about grenediers is that they team up well with the cannon. Anything you would have used riflemen for, you can use cannon for instead. I like to have a few pikes around too for the cavalry.

I basicly never build riflemen unless I'm the English.

The other nice thing about the chemistry/steel tech line is that it lets you build the ironworks, for great engineer farming.

 

[Quetzal513]

I used to try to blast away with a hundred kazillion tanks until recently, that is when I moved up to monarch. It was getting late in the game and I was closing in on a space race victory... but so was Mansa. Using my spies to recon I realized that I wasn't going to beat him without slowing him down. Prior to completing the Apollo program I'd been stockpiling tanks. I declared war and literally 6 gunships shredded my 40 tanks, preventing me from overcoming the bulk of his defenses. I learned a lot about the combination of arms. (The overall war was much more complex than this).

Here is the thing I’ve realized about Mechs, they don’t have a natural counter unit. You’re going to play rock-paper-scissors with armor-gunships-sam infantry. That’s what makes them such great defenders, and overall units. Use tanks, use all of the units, but I think you need a health stack of mechs.